Range degradation

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
Butty124
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Post by Butty124 »

Hi.
I’ve had id3 family pro for six months. Ex-demonstrator now done 7k miles. Range at 80% charge has fallen to less than 140 miles (was 180 at purchase) and 100% change yields 169 mile (was 230). I’ve followed the golden rules charging only to 100% twice and used DC only twice.

Any one else with similar experience? I am about to contact VW - any tips?

monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Butty124 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:02 pm Hi.
I’ve had id3 family pro for six months. Ex-demonstrator now done 7k miles. Range at 80% charge has fallen to less than 140 miles (was 180 at purchase) and 100% change yields 169 mile (was 230). I’ve followed the golden rules charging only to 100% twice and used DC only twice.

Any one else with similar experience? I am about to contact VW - any tips?
This could be perfectly normal if your range drop has coincided with the winter weather. Cold weather kills range due to cabin heating and (much more sigmficant) battery heating. Your car running at around 2-4C will be only 2/3 efficient vs 20C or more.

I have seem similar drops in range over the last 3 weeks or so.
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Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

It’s cold.

Nothing more sinister than that.

To minimise the impact of the cold weather on your consumption and therefore your range, pre-heat the cabin while charging and rely more on the heated seats and wheel than the AC system once you’re driving.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Its simply colder weather. Not battery degradation. Everyone here on this forum will be experiencing reduced range now unless they are from warmer climates. All EVs are the same.
Cabin heating, battery heating.
My range has dropped from 4.5 miles/kW to 3.2 miles/kW. A huge reduction.
Little you can do to mitigate it. Pre heat the cabin while on charge if you have a home charger.
Reduce heater temp/use if more range is critical to your journey.
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rawws
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Post by rawws »

Agree my first winter with an EV and the range hit is more than I expected luckily winter range still covers my usually mileage just about. I can see why some EV drivers have an ice 2nd car for winter.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Daveion wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:37 pm Its simply colder weather. Not battery degradation. Everyone here on this forum will be experiencing reduced range now unless they are from warmer climates. All EVs are the same.
Cabin heating, battery heating.
My range has dropped from 4.5 miles/kW to 3.2 miles/kW. A huge reduction.
Little you can do to mitigate it. Pre heat the cabin while on charge if you have a home charger.
Reduce heater temp/use if more range is critical to your journey.
Yes, very little you can do to mitigate it as most of the hit is battery heating (which you can do nothing sbout) rather than cabin heating. Driving around with no cabin heating, my current hit is about 1 mile per kWh, and with cabin heating to 18C from 2-4C ambient is 1.2 miles per kWh.

No point freezing your arse off for the difference it makes to Winter range unless you're looking to maintain a sweaty 24C.
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blenny
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Post by blenny »

rawws wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:55 am Agree my first winter with an EV and the range hit is more than I expected luckily winter range still covers my usually mileage just about. I can see why some EV drivers have an ice 2nd car for winter.
Same! Interesting experience driving yesterday with kids in blankets at the back, minimal use of AC (was going to be close to the wire and needing the spare 10% range that gave me), driving snow knocking out assisted driving and presumably certain safety features!
MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

Its the battery heater that uses loads of juice (8-10kw) for the first 10-20 min from a sub 11 degree start. 10kw for 15 min = 2.5kwh, or approximately 5% of a 57kwh battery.. So every completely cold start you do will take a big chunk - and this is then reflected in your consumption.

The newest models seem to only have the battery heater kick in once its below zero (instead of 11) - and this will likely be rolled out to older models. I think - it may require a hardware update but forgotten the details.
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Post by monkeyhanger »

2 mile round trip school run this morning. 1.7 miles per kWh recorded, and a 5% drop in range between leaving and returning, which means 2.9 kWh used, but should've been 1.2kWh used to do 2 miles @ 1.7 miles per kWh.

Something odd going on there, it's almost as if the economy figure is inclusive of cabin heating and motor power, but excludes battery heating draw.
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

monkeyhanger wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:09 pm 2 mile round trip school run this morning. 1.7 miles per kWh recorded, and a 5% drop in range between leaving and returning, which means 2.9 kWh used, but should've been 1.2kWh used to do 2 miles @ 1.7 miles per kWh.

Something odd going on there, it's almost as if the economy figure is inclusive of cabin heating and motor power, but excludes battery heating draw.
Yup - switching the heater on or off results in an instant change to the GOM. Battery heater doesnt.

I had a 20 mile return trip today (with an hour break). It used 25% on the way there!! (started at -2), and 8% on the way back!!!
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

MotMot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:14 am Its the battery heater that uses loads of juice (8-10kw) for the first 10-20 min from a sub 11 degree start. 10kw for 15 min = 2.5kwh, or approximately 5% of a 57kwh battery.. So every completely cold start you do will take a big chunk - and this is then reflected in your consumption.

The newest models seem to only have the battery heater kick in once its below zero (instead of 11) - and this will likely be rolled out to older models. I think - it may require a hardware update but forgotten the details.
Certainly not the case for the July models. I've seen the battery heater come on around 8ish, but drawing less (2-3kW, never seen it draw above that).

All the best

Andreas
——————
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

Andreas wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:20 pm
MotMot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:14 am Its the battery heater that uses loads of juice (8-10kw) for the first 10-20 min from a sub 11 degree start. 10kw for 15 min = 2.5kwh, or approximately 5% of a 57kwh battery.. So every completely cold start you do will take a big chunk - and this is then reflected in your consumption.

The newest models seem to only have the battery heater kick in once its below zero (instead of 11) - and this will likely be rolled out to older models. I think - it may require a hardware update but forgotten the details.
Certainly not the case for the July models. I've seen the battery heater come on around 8ish, but drawing less (2-3kW, never seen it draw above that).

All the best

Andreas
Mine was delivered 1st July!
The cabin heater pulls about 2kw (did some experimenting today!)
Gwyver
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Post by Gwyver »

I took delivery of my Family Pro Performance in mid October. It has a heat pump and arrived with f/w 2.3 factory installed. I've now driven ~1000 miles including (recently) a couple 100+ mile motorway journeys. The overall average thus far is 3.46 M/kW.

Today whilst driving with ext temp = -0.5C there was little discernible reduction in the forecast range but the power display in the digital instrument cluster showed that the available energy recuperation & traction levels (i.e. the thin green & blue bars) were significantly below their maximum values.

Is it the case that when the battery temperature is low the maximum allowed charge & discharge rates are curtailed by the thermal management system?
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I think you can't expect full recuperation or max power as shown on the bars but charging to a set level would not be affected. A cold battery just has a slower rate of charge so will take longer overall.
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Post by G43FAN »

Gwyver wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:19 pm I took delivery of my Family Pro Performance in mid October. It has a heat pump and arrived with f/w 2.3 factory installed. I've now driven ~1000 miles including (recently) a couple 100+ mile motorway journeys. The overall average thus far is 3.46 M/kW.

Today whilst driving with ext temp = -0.5C there was little discernible reduction in the forecast range but the power display in the digital instrument cluster showed that the available energy recuperation & traction levels (i.e. the thin green & blue bars) were significantly below their maximum values.

Is it the case that when the battery temperature is low the maximum allowed charge & discharge rates are curtailed by the thermal management system?
Yes, that is the case. Also you will not get a full green bar available when charge @100%
rawws
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Post by rawws »

MotMot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:15 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:09 pm 2 mile round trip school run this morning. 1.7 miles per kWh recorded, and a 5% drop in range between leaving and returning, which means 2.9 kWh used, but should've been 1.2kWh used to do 2 miles @ 1.7 miles per kWh.

Something odd going on there, it's almost as if the economy figure is inclusive of cabin heating and motor power, but excludes battery heating draw.
Yup - switching the heater on or off results in an instant change to the GOM. Battery heater doesnt.

I had a 20 mile return trip today (with an hour break). It used 25% on the way there!! (started at -2), and 8% on the way back!!!
winter battery hit means ramps up overall electricy cost as you charge more frequent for longer some thing which makes me miss ice cars especially in the UK. i can imagine id3 in spain or portugal being more range over the year
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fordfocusman
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Post by fordfocusman »

Is heating the battery necessary, even when the car is not in use? I've logged my range loss over the last three days with the car sitting in the driveway and not driven; Started with 203 km, yesterday it was 183 km, today it's 160 km. Average outside temperature 5-7 deg C. That's about 5% loss per day, twenty days to drain to empty from full. I wouldn't be able to leave the car in the airport long term car park for a few weeks at that rate of loss.
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Smitten
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Post by Smitten »

fordfocusman wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:19 pm Is heating the battery necessary, even when the car is not in use? I've logged my range loss over the last three days with the car sitting in the driveway and not driven; Started with 203 km, yesterday it was 183 km, today it's 160 km. Average outside temperature 5-7 deg C. That's about 5% loss per day, twenty days to drain to empty from full. I wouldn't be able to leave the car in the airport long term car park for a few weeks at that rate of loss.
Loss of range and loss of charge are not the same thing. The battery does not heat if car is not in use. The car has cooled down. The range is nothing more than a "Guestimate of Mileage" and I would wager the % state of charge of your battery is pretty much exactly the same as three days ago as you haven't used the car. So nothing has drained away. If the outside temperature were to increase to 15 to 20 degrees C (a miracle indeed!) I wouldn't mind betting the range prediction would go up again without you doing anything. Batteries just don't like being cold.
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

fordfocusman wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:19 pm Is heating the battery necessary, even when the car is not in use? I've logged my range loss over the last three days with the car sitting in the driveway and not driven; Started with 203 km, yesterday it was 183 km, today it's 160 km. Average outside temperature 5-7 deg C. That's about 5% loss per day, twenty days to drain to empty from full. I wouldn't be able to leave the car in the airport long term car park for a few weeks at that rate of loss.

What have the % figures been? That's all that really matters, not km or miles.
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Post by hungerdunger »

Just to back up what others have said, I left my ID.3 at Bristol airport for ten days in November. It was charged to 82% when I left it and it was still reading 82% when I returned.
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