Range issues

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

scott28tt wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:50 am 8 city-based journeys, in the cold, each of about 6 miles average - that would hurt the range of any BEV.
Yeah, have to do the school run by car instead of cycle due to Osgood Schlatter on the 10-year old. This morning I warmed up the car before starting, did a 3-mile round trip. Advertised at 3.4m/kWh by the car (yay). Actual consumption including pre-heat 4%, i.e. 1m/kWh effective use (nay).

Short trips in this weather kill the efficiency stone-dead.

All the best

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adas144
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Post by adas144 »

I've got a Polestar and experience the same thing. In the winter my 6 mile commute (12 miles per day) uses around 9-10%. Gives me a total range of approx 120 miles. But in the same conditions it will do 220 miles in one go. Its just simply using a massive amount of energy to heat the batteries up.

you'll get used to it :)
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Post by MotMot »

adas144 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:27 am I've got a Polestar and experience the same thing. In the winter my 6 mile commute (12 miles per day) uses around 9-10%. Gives me a total range of approx 120 miles. But in the same conditions it will do 220 miles in one go. Its just simply using a massive amount of energy to heat the batteries up.

you'll get used to it :)
The issue here is that VW have changed the heating temp threshold to zero from 8 degrees in the very latest cars to roll out of the factory. But updating this to existing cars isn’t happening yet - and will most likely occur in spring… 🤦‍♂️ 😁
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Post by Utumno »

MotMot wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:21 am
adas144 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:27 am I've got a Polestar and experience the same thing. In the winter my 6 mile commute (12 miles per day) uses around 9-10%. Gives me a total range of approx 120 miles. But in the same conditions it will do 220 miles in one go. Its just simply using a massive amount of energy to heat the batteries up.

you'll get used to it :)
The issue here is that VW have changed the heating temp threshold to zero from 8 degrees in the very latest cars to roll out of the factory. But updating this to existing cars isn’t happening yet - and will most likely occur in spring… 🤦‍♂️ 😁

If memory serves this is because there was a component hardware revision necessary on the car which they could obviously "fix" in the factory, but couldn't do without a "recall" campaign for cars already shipped. My understanding is that this component hardware revision is being bundled into the "12V Battery Replacement" campaign coming at some point in 2022, which is itself a pre-requisite for OTA 3.0 software installs.

I'd be roundly amazed if the hardware campaign kicks off in Q1, frankly.
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Post by MotMot »

😁 yes I’d be amazed if it’s even started by 31st March 2022. But I look forward to it happening..

(Still waiting for part 2 of 2.3!)
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Post by StuartT »

MotMot wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:30 am 😁 yes I’d be amazed if it’s even started by 31st March 2022. But I look forward to it happening..

(Still waiting for part 2 of 2.3!)
Some of us are still waiting for the first part of 2.3😂
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Slathe
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Post by Slathe »

MotMot wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:21 am The issue here is that VW have changed the heating temp threshold to zero from 8 degrees in the very latest cars to roll out of the factory. But updating this to existing cars isn’t happening yet - and will most likely occur in spring… 🤦‍♂️ 😁
Is this change in heating temp threshold to zero a good thing? Doesn’t that mean more energy used to heat the battery in the new cars being built?
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Post by Daveion »

Slathe wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:46 pm
MotMot wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:21 am The issue here is that VW have changed the heating temp threshold to zero from 8 degrees in the very latest cars to roll out of the factory. But updating this to existing cars isn’t happening yet - and will most likely occur in spring… 🤦‍♂️ 😁
Is this change in heating temp threshold to zero a good thing? Doesn’t that mean more energy used to heat the battery in the new cars being built?
I took it to mean that above zero C battery heating is achieved simply by driving and expending energy. Batteries will be heated if below zero C to prevent potential damage and limited performance/regen so overall a range saver.
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Post by sidehaas »

Daveion wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:21 pm
Slathe wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:46 pm
MotMot wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:21 am The issue here is that VW have changed the heating temp threshold to zero from 8 degrees in the very latest cars to roll out of the factory. But updating this to existing cars isn’t happening yet - and will most likely occur in spring… 🤦‍♂️ 😁
Is this change in heating temp threshold to zero a good thing? Doesn’t that mean more energy used to heat the battery in the new cars being built?
I took it to mean that above zero C battery heating is achieved simply by driving and expending energy. Batteries will be heated if below zero C to prevent potential damage and limited performance/regen so overall a range saver.
Mine is the latest version and does not battery heat (above 0 - temps haven't dropped lower since I've had it but so far I have seen no battery heating and have done quite a few runs in the 2-6C range now.) I posted an image of some driving data on SpeakEV. However for what it's worth (1) I haven't yet noticed any effect on power or regen capability, not to say it doesn't exist but the power bar is definitely full and (2) the short journey consumption is still poor if you want the heating on (I can get 3.5m/kWh for a short slow journey without it but less than 2.5m/kWh if I set it to 18/19C.) I also haven't managed more than 3m/kWh on a longer trip yet and my predicted range at 80% is similar to those mentioned above. The point I'm making is, when this is fixed, I think it might only be a small minority of people who see any noticeable difference in overall car efficiency. It will probably have a bigger impact on perceived efficiency by stopping people from complaining about a supposed sub-100 mile range or whatever....
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Post by G43FAN »

sidehaas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:15 pm
Daveion wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:21 pm
Slathe wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:46 pm

Is this change in heating temp threshold to zero a good thing? Doesn’t that mean more energy used to heat the battery in the new cars being built?
I took it to mean that above zero C battery heating is achieved simply by driving and expending energy. Batteries will be heated if below zero C to prevent potential damage and limited performance/regen so overall a range saver.
Mine is the latest version and does not battery heat (above 0 - temps haven't dropped lower since I've had it but so far I have seen no battery heating and have done quite a few runs in the 2-6C range now.) I posted an image of some driving data on SpeakEV. However for what it's worth (1) I haven't yet noticed any effect on power or regen capability, not to say it doesn't exist but the power bar is definitely full and (2) the short journey consumption is still poor if you want the heating on (I can get 3.5m/kWh for a short slow journey without it but less than 2.5m/kWh if I set it to 18/19C.) I also haven't managed more than 3m/kWh on a longer trip yet and my predicted range at 80% is similar to those mentioned above. The point I'm making is, when this is fixed, I think it might only be a small minority of people who see any noticeable difference in overall car efficiency. It will probably have a bigger impact on perceived efficiency by stopping people from complaining about a supposed sub-100 mile range or whatever....
You have 3.0 software installed?
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Post by sidehaas »

No 🤣 Cars with 2.3 installed from the factory do not battery heat between zero and 8 C, ie the threshold to trigger battery heating has been moved.
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Post by Daveion »

Interesting that it didn't require a SW level change and we have 2 battery heating approaches on 2.3.
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Post by MDill38 »

Hi all

Thanks for sharing your stories. I had my ID3 delivered this week and have been concerned that the range is well below what I expected in the winter.

So far I’ve done 75 miles since charging to 80% and it’s down to 21%. Which would make 127 miles for a full 100% charge (even though I’ll only charge to 80%).

Does the battery need to “settle in”? Also, when talking about pre heating the battery before driving, is it as simple as merely switching it on or do I need to activate anything to do so?

Thanks
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Post by Utumno »

G43FAN wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:30 pm You have 3.0 software installed?

2.3 is the latest software version. 3.0 is vapourware.
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Post by Smitten »

sidehaas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:33 pm No 🤣 Cars with 2.3 installed from the factory do not battery heat between zero and 8 C, ie the threshold to trigger battery heating has been moved.
I wonder whether you also have battery pre heating as part of these modifications or if that comes with 3.0?
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

MDill38 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:12 pm Hi all

Thanks for sharing your stories. I had my ID3 delivered this week and have been concerned that the range is well below what I expected in the winter.

So far I’ve done 75 miles since charging to 80% and it’s down to 21%. Which would make 127 miles for a full 100% charge (even though I’ll only charge to 80%).

Does the battery need to “settle in”? Also, when talking about pre heating the battery before driving, is it as simple as merely switching it on or do I need to activate anything to do so?

Thanks

Were those 75 miles all in once go, or multiple short journeys?

There is no “settling in”.

Pre-heat the cabin before you do your first journey, while the car is charging.
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Post by simonrg »

scott28tt wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 pm
MDill38 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:12 pm Hi all

Thanks for sharing your stories. I had my ID3 delivered this week and have been concerned that the range is well below what I expected in the winter.

So far I’ve done 75 miles since charging to 80% and it’s down to 21%. Which would make 127 miles for a full 100% charge (even though I’ll only charge to 80%).

Does the battery need to “settle in”? Also, when talking about pre heating the battery before driving, is it as simple as merely switching it on or do I need to activate anything to do so?

Thanks
Were those 75 miles all in once go, or multiple short journeys?

There is no “settling in”.

Pre-heat the cabin before you do your first journey, while the car is charging.
The other factor is speed, 127miles for full 100% charge would be about right for a single journey, if you were driving over 70mph and temperature was below 5C.
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Post by sidehaas »

Smitten wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:34 pm
sidehaas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:33 pm No 🤣 Cars with 2.3 installed from the factory do not battery heat between zero and 8 C, ie the threshold to trigger battery heating has been moved.
I wonder whether you also have battery pre heating as part of these modifications or if that comes with 3.0?
I doubt it as that will require more software intelligence, having the dependence of n where you are navigating to. Certainly not as far as I know. The actual infotainment software must be the same as other 2.3 cars, I suspect there is just a different threshold hard programmed in to an ECU attached to the battery,as we know older cars are having a new ECU(s) along with the 12 V battery upgrade. I'm speculating obv.
The problem is, I can't remember now where I saw that MY22 had the battery heating threshold update. It was a throwaway comment in one of the VW Comms I think.
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Post by MDill38 »

scott28tt wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 pm
MDill38 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:12 pm Hi all

Thanks for sharing your stories. I had my ID3 delivered this week and have been concerned that the range is well below what I expected in the winter.

So far I’ve done 75 miles since charging to 80% and it’s down to 21%. Which would make 127 miles for a full 100% charge (even though I’ll only charge to 80%).

Does the battery need to “settle in”? Also, when talking about pre heating the battery before driving, is it as simple as merely switching it on or do I need to activate anything to do so?

Thanks

Were those 75 miles all in once go, or multiple short journeys?

There is no “settling in”.

Pre-heat the cabin before you do your first journey, while the car is charging.
They were over the course of smaller journeys. Longest was 22 miles. Thanks for the help.
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

I don’t think the battery Heating temp threshold has ever been confirmed - but was found out on the German id3 forum where it was noticed by someone with 2.3 from the factory (so back in Oct/Nov). Then followed speculation and finally some tests with an OBD dongle to Show the threshold had changed. IIRC VW just said there were changes to the BMS or words to that effect.

Anyway - how it was found out is a bit of a moot point :) if you’ve got it great - If not hopefully sometime before next winter! :)
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