Range issues

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
aswale
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Post by aswale » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:23 am

Just wondering what sort of range people are getting during the cold weather? I'm a bit concerned about mine.

I charged the battery to 80% last weekend, and it displayed ~190 miles range available. In this last week I've driven approx 45 miles, across 8 journeys - all city based, no motorways etc. Not very long journeys really and I haven't had the air con on, just my own heated seat and the steering wheel.

At the moment the car is telling me the battery is down to 43% and only 98 miles remaining. This is basically telling me my current range for the car on as full charge would be ~110 miles? Quite a long way away from the advertised 260 miles, even taking cold weather into account?

Could this be an issue with my vehicle or is everyone having a similar issue?

Hoppy
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Post by Hoppy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:04 am

We drive mostly motorways and charge to 80% unless going on a longer journey

Range during the cold weather is around the 140 mark
The range drop is a little more than expected ! Our previous GTE dropped from 29 in summer to 19 in winter

Fortunately we can charge on arrival at destination and bring back up to 80% before coming home to remove range anxiety.

There are some good replies on previous threads explaining why range drops
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Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:14 am

43% for 98 miles equals 2.28 miles per 1%, meaning 100% would be 228 miles. Or am I missing something?

260 miles is the WLTP figure, have a look at how WLTP is calculated and you’ll see that it isn’t a real-world figure - this isn’t an ID3 thing, it’s a BEV thing.

simonrg
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Post by simonrg » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:32 am

scott28tt wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:14 am
43% for 98 miles equals 2.28 miles per 1%, meaning 100% would be 228 miles. Or am I missing something?

260 miles is the WLTP figure, have a look at how WLTP is calculated and you’ll see that it isn’t a real-world figure - this isn’t an ID3 thing, it’s a BEV thing.
But 45 miles resulted in a 37% drop in battery, so 100% battery would be 122 miles - 2.1 miles per kWh - about what people get for short journeys with temperature below 8C.

I suspect for each of your journeys the battery was cold, so your car is using energy to warm the battery up for each journey so it works effectively. As you are only doing short journeys in cold weather means a lot of energy is used just to warm the battery.

I too was surprised by this as not advertised on any primary VW ID.3 publications, it is mentioned in the small print if you read up on VW's battery technology.

It does appear that at least for the ID.3, it is ideal for short journeys in warm cities, not so much so for cold cities in winter, unless it lives in a cosy garage.
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aswale
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Post by aswale » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:34 am

OK so I'm not going mad - this is good to know. Roll on the warmer weather!

Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:50 am

8 city-based journeys, in the cold, each of about 6 miles average - that would hurt the range of any BEV.

WLTP tests are carried out in much warmer conditions (15-23 degrees, ideal temperatures for a BEV).

All EV owners refer to the in-car range display as the GoM (guessometer).

OllyExeterID3
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Post by OllyExeterID3 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:11 am

aswale wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:23 am
Just wondering what sort of range people are getting during the cold weather? I'm a bit concerned about mine.

I charged the battery to 80% last weekend, and it displayed ~190 miles range available. In this last week I've driven approx 45 miles, across 8 journeys - all city based, no motorways etc. Not very long journeys really and I haven't had the air con on, just my own heated seat and the steering wheel.

At the moment the car is telling me the battery is down to 43% and only 98 miles remaining. This is basically telling me my current range for the car on as full charge would be ~110 miles? Quite a long way away from the advertised 260 miles, even taking cold weather into account?

Could this be an issue with my vehicle or is everyone having a similar issue?
We had a similar reading of about 98 miles at 43% - though that was after a long drive in November. I have found it drops quicker during shorter journeys - probably because, as has been mentioned, it takes energy to warm the battery to enable it to be at its most efficient.

So far, our most efficient journey has been one where I have preheated the car, set Eco Mode and then ACC to 64mph on motorways, switched to D mode. That was a 100% charge showing 235 miles, then showing 110 at 50% - so I 'lost' 15 miles of predicted range but I don't think that is too bad.

I am holding out for those long summer days to try some hypermiling :)

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:42 pm

My range is about the same as yours in this cold weather with similar journeys. I was bothered at first but the battery performance from all I have read gets retarded as a chemical process at lower temperatures.
One day last week the ambient temp rose to 11C and I noticed an immediate significant improvement in range. Its my first EV so on the learning curve. My range in colder weather, say less than 5C, would be 210'ish.
At 11C it projected to 246'ish.
Intermittent use of the heater to clear the windscreen only.
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Kelloggs
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Post by Kelloggs » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:55 am

I’m getting 1.9-2.1m/kwhr at the moment with a heat pump. Lower than last winter by a significant amount. Mostly short journeys but the same applied last year and it was in the 3’s
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:27 am

my GOM is giving 160 or so at 80%. Seems pretty standard for the winter so far.

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:28 am

MotMot wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:27 am
my GOM is giving 160 or so at 80%. Seems pretty standard for the winter so far.
Around the same for me. Cabin heating 20C.
I haven't been pre heating much plugged-in so think thats pretty good.
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G43FAN
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Post by G43FAN » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:29 am

Mine's more like 140, but then I do a lot of very short journeys with no pre-heating.
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newb-ev
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Post by newb-ev » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:54 pm

At the weekend I did a trip of just over 13 miles (13.2) and used 9% of the battery (80% - 71%) in a 58kWh battery, which equates to a range of about 147miles, if my maths is correct ( at 1.47 miles per 1%). It was actually a round trip of 6.6 miles each way, with about 90 mins parked in between, so probably had battery heating on both parts of the journey.

However the GoM says I can do 157 miles with the remaining 71%, rather than 104 miles if its 1.47 miles per 1%.

I assume this is because the GoM is programmed to assume longer journeys where the battery heating has less of an overall impact.

Initially I was worried about the range I was getting (1st EV just got it in December), but then I did the maths and realised it was not much different to the 160 I thought I would get in winter. It just seems less because I never use all 100%, I am trying to stay within the 40-80%, which at 1.47 miles per 1% gives me a range of about 60 miles of short trips between recharges.

So for me, after an initial period of worry I have just accepted it and as I charge at home when the cars not being used it doesn’t really inconvenience me.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:38 pm

newb-ev wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:54 pm
At the weekend I did a trip of just over 13 miles (13.2) and used 9% of the battery (80% - 71%) in a 58kWh battery, which equates to a range of about 147miles, if my maths is correct ( at 1.47 miles per 1%). It was actually a round trip of 6.6 miles each way, with about 90 mins parked in between, so probably had battery heating on both parts of the journey.

However the GoM says I can do 157 miles with the remaining 71%, rather than 104 miles if its 1.47 miles per 1%.

I assume this is because the GoM is programmed to assume longer journeys where the battery heating has less of an overall impact.

Initially I was worried about the range I was getting (1st EV just got it in December), but then I did the maths and realised it was not much different to the 160 I thought I would get in winter. It just seems less because I never use all 100%, I am trying to stay within the 40-80%, which at 1.47 miles per 1% gives me a range of about 60 miles of short trips between recharges.

So for me, after an initial period of worry I have just accepted it and as I charge at home when the cars not being used it doesn’t really inconvenience me.
Good for you. I have a similar pattern. Some days nothing other days 60-70 miles.
With a home charger you are parked in the filling station. How good is that!
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Slathe
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Post by Slathe » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:02 pm

So how far is a short journey? In other words how long does it take for the battery to warm up? Is time based or distance?

monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 pm

Slathe wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:02 pm
So how far is a short journey? In other words how long does it take for the battery to warm up? Is time based or distance?
It would seem to be time based - the speed at which it heats the battery isn't dependent on how fast you're going.

The amount of heating depends on ambient temps. Battery needs to get to around d 14C. If its 0C, you're going to need a lot more heating than 8C ambient.

Personal experience is that if its less than 5C, you're taking 15-20 mins to heat the battery, drawing about 6kWh just in battery heating. If all your journeys are less than 15 mins in that circumstance, you'll be lucky to see a range of 140 miles from 80%..
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:58 am

It takes about ten min to warm up. Draws up to 8kw. My rule of thumb is that each cold start with the battery heater uses 4-5% of the battery.

Quite a chunk.

Scratch
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Post by Scratch » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:53 am

Is there any screen which tells you the battery temperature? Or are people just summising that 15-20 mins of use, gets it to the "efficient" temp?

MotMot
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Post by MotMot » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:09 am

Scratch wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:53 am
Is there any screen which tells you the battery temperature? Or are people just summising that 15-20 mins of use, gets it to the "efficient" temp?
Nope.

But I've an OBD reader that gives you this info. It provides the KW consumption (and the coolant flow rate if you like!). If its really cold it takes a bit longer - if its closer to 8 degrees a bit less. It warms the battery up to 13.5 degrees. I suspect (not tested) that if you drive your car quite hard whilst its warming that will speed up the process - whether or not this is sensible is another issue!

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colonelpurple
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Post by colonelpurple » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:10 am

Any battery device is going to take a crash of 30% when the temperature drops.
The ID3 turns on a heater below 12.5 I think and if you have the heat pump you will get 10% better efficiency, but there is no avoiding this

I think if your car is delivered in winter you would be quite disappointed, but don't despair, as the temperature comes back so will your battery
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