Miles per KW

[BeesKnees]

Just seem this
https://www.wintonsworld.com/electric-c ... ange-data/

Says the ID3 will do 198miles (3.4 miles pkW ) in real world mixed driving and 126.5 miles ( 2.2 miles pkW ) motorway driving.

Based on what's been said so far that sounds surprisingly low.

[Deleted User 314]

Def get better than this on our thrashing trips. Doing a long drive Friday, almost to Madrid, will try to remember to clock it.

[Andreas]

Just seem this
https://www.wintonsworld.com/electric-c ... ange-data/

Says the ID3 will do 198miles (3.4 miles pkW ) in real world mixed driving and 126.5 miles ( 2.2 miles pkW ) motorway driving.

Based on what's been said so far that sounds surprisingly low.

It's definitely understating things by a country mile (haha, geddit?). Not my experience at all. Mostly motorway (110-130kmh) mixed driving 6,500km at 3.75.

I did get

All the best

Andreas

[Scratch]

From what I remember, the VW web site quotes 3 different figures for the 58KWh mileage. (261, 263, 264). Let's just call it 260. So that is from a full to fully depleted battery, in ideal conditions, I presume? But that isn't what owners will do, unless they have to. As the minimum charge for the battery is recommended not to go below 20%, and the maximum charge should be (mostly) limited to 80%, then isn't 60% of the battery what is really available? I think that works out at 34/35 KWh, giving about 140 miles? I am not knocking the ID3, we pick ours up today. I just want to be realistic. Someone blow my theory out of the water please.

[Andreas]

The 260 is a theoretical construct. In the end it depends on your driving mix (I have the 77kWh battery and can get 400 miles instead of the advertised 313 in city traffic, for example), temperature (you seem to get more distance at 38 degree C on an Italian highway at 130kmh then you do at 18 degree C on a French highway at 130kmh), aircon on/off, load, driving style, use switched to D/B whatever, whether you drive in mostly flat or very hilly country.

All the best

Andreas

[G43FAN]

From what I remember, the VW web site quotes 3 different figures for the 58KWh mileage. (261, 263, 264). Let's just call it 260. So that is from a full to fully depleted battery, in ideal conditions, I presume? But that isn't what owners will do, unless they have to. As the minimum charge for the battery is recommended not to go below 20%, and the maximum charge should be (mostly) limited to 80%, then isn't 60% of the battery what is really available? I think that works out at 34/35 KWh, giving about 140 miles? I am not knocking the ID3, we pick ours up today. I just want to be realistic. Someone blow my theory out of the water please.

The above 60% of battery availability is a picture of average car use with typically cars are not doing more than 30 miles a day and therefore obeying the 80/20 rule will maximise care for your battery and not be of an issue to the average owner.

BUT : If you are travelling a long distance there is nothing wrong with charging to 100% and running down to near 10% (Nerves allowing). Lithium based battery technology doesn't like Temperature variation/extremes and it doesn't like being kept fully charged or depleted for long periods of time.
The advice is to only charge to 100% if you are going to immediately use the car, never store the car with a full battery and similarly if you deplete the battery to below 20% you should aim to charge as soon as possible. From a practical point of view the charging curve for batteries means that once you reach 80% everything slows down anyway so from a time v distance efficiency POV unless you really require it 100% charging isn't necessarily going to save you time on a long journey other than if you time your initial departure to be at 100% SoC

There is also a 6% buffer to protect against total discharge and a 4% buffer to protect against overcharging built into the car anyway,

There is also a whole discussion around cell balancing and conditioning much of which only occurs towards 100% of charge but I have yet to see anyone dig out any information as to how this is managed by the car's BMS.

[colonelpurple]

When my car is charged to 80% is says around 215. This is optimistic, but more accurate as you approach the constant 50-55 mph ideal, and less realistic as you deviate from that. Although i find the car does use more electricity if you put your foot down then i thought it would (naughty me!)

In terms of battery effects, the debate is ongoing, but basically there are two things which influence battery longevity:

1. Heat
- extreme heat may damage some of the substrate
- the higher wattage the charger, and the longer the charge, the more heat generated. Thus the nervousness about high watt chargers
- however, It is also a function of the air temperature around the vehicle. If you live in a colder climate, the battery will be cooler on charge
- basically occasional fast charges won't make a difference, but regular fast charges for a large percentage of battery in a hot climate would have the most deteriorating effect over time

2. Chemical substrate
- the substrate changes to one chemical with charge, and releases energy and changes to another chemical without charge
- battery substrates are manufactured 50% when new. So close to 50% is most stable. Some crazy person has bought a car and is planning to only keep charge between 40 and 60% to see if can preserve life. Not alot of range there
- Basically, if you charge to 100% or drop to 0%, some of the substrate can be damaged (turn to a third stable chemical) and go out of use. But unclear as to effect as you approach 0 or 100, many folk believe 90-10 is as good as 80-20
- Also note that the ID3 is net 58 but gross 62, and the battery has very small cells (cigars), uniquely designed by VW. So the engine management system decides which to charge and how much. This means that 80% charge one day is unlikely to be the same cells as 80% charge another day. Also 100% is not really 100% due to gross battery management.

In summary, worry about fast charging in hot climates for too long, but otherwise enjoy the car.
Probably keep between 90/80-20 when you can, just in case this helps

[shire-dweller]

As the minimum charge for the battery is recommended not to go below 20%, and the maximum charge should be (mostly) limited to 80%, then isn't 60% of the battery what is really available?

Not quite. The upper limit is safely 100%, as long as you plan charging such that the car stays at 100% for a short period of time ("a few hours" is the advice I came across before). Charge it to 100% just before a long journey where the 100% charge will be useful. Most people will have a daily routine (work commute, local shopping, school run) that does not require charging above 80%, and they will adjust the car settings to automatically stop charging at 80%, increasing this to 100% before a longer trip (I think it can be conveniently adjusted through the mobile app).

As for the lower limit, from what I have read so far, it's not so much a case of damaging the battery, but rather a case of not getting yourself stranded with an empty battery. I've read that, below 20%, the ID.3 will cap its maximum acceleration (not speed) to save energy, and the driver should adjust their driving style accordingly (overtaking could be a bit slower?). I understand the car does this to extend the range so you can reach the next charger. But if you have a charging plan, I don't see why not go as low as 10%, or even lower.

The ABRP EV navigation planner (Android app, iOS app), when optimising for journey time and minimising charging time, will by default plan for the battery to run as low as 10%, and usually not more than 80% at mid-trip charging stops (e.g. motorway rapid chargers). This is purely for charging speed reasons, not about battery damage. The charging curve for ID.3 means that charging speed/power is highest (100KW, apparently 120KW for updated models) while the battery charge is below 30%, and charging is slowest (below 50KW, as low as 20KW) when the battery charge goes above 80%. This is a technological limitation common to most EVs, as far as I am aware.