Keyless entry id3 security
With the increase of vehicle theft recently especially cars with keyless entry.
Is the vw id3 more secure in this area or is it vulnerable to relay theft gadget things like other cars
Is the vw id3 more secure in this area or is it vulnerable to relay theft gadget things like other cars
Last edited by rawws on Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I understand that the keys are meant to stop transmitting if they are still which should reduce relay theft. But organised car thrives are resoursefuul bods!
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Ok thanks is that mentioned anywhere that the keys a stop transmitting.? Or is it an assumption
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The ID.3 has this: https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... h-uwb-5438
Also, the keys do sleep if they’re not moved.
So to answer your question, yes the ID.3 is more secure regarding keyless entry.
Also, the keys do sleep if they’re not moved.
So to answer your question, yes the ID.3 is more secure regarding keyless entry.
Also you can disable the keyless entry when you lock the car.
When you lock the car with the key fob quickly touch the outer sensor on the door handle and you'll here the car lock again.
The only way you can unlock the car is to physically push the unlock button on the key fob.
When you lock the car with the key fob quickly touch the outer sensor on the door handle and you'll here the car lock again.
The only way you can unlock the car is to physically push the unlock button on the key fob.
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Ok thanks thats a good solution will checkNewfie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:09 am Also you can disable the keyless entry when you lock the car.
When you lock the car with the key fob quickly touch the outer sensor on the door handle and you'll here the car lock again.
The only way you can unlock the car is to physically push the unlock button on the key fob.
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Thanks for the info saw belowscott28tt wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:03 am The ID.3 has this: https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... h-uwb-5438
Also, the keys do sleep if they’re not moved.
So to answer your question, yes the ID.3 is more secure regarding keyless entry.
This is how UWB’s theft protection works:
The chips integrated in the car (for example, on all four doors and the trunk) communicate with each other and in addition with other mini transmitters, for example on the car key. The six chips constantly transmit signals back and forth, “talking” to each other. The exact position of the car owner is determined from the time measured when these signals are sent and received – the so-called “Time-of-Flight”. A previous technique of intercepting the radio signal, for the purpose of vehicle theft, is no longer possible.
With conventional keyless systems, only the signal strength of the key is measured: The larger it is, the closer the user is to their vehicle. This signal could be relayed and used by unauthorized persons.
UWB enables a real centimeter-precise and, above all, tamper-proof positioning control of the user – at any time and at the speed of light. At the same time, this is a real plausibility check that the rightful driver or passenger is approaching the vehicle. The car can also unlock individual doors to suit the position from which the driver approaches the car.
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rawws wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:26 amThanks for the info saw below so in theory no need to disable the key less entry convenience like most carsscott28tt wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:03 am The ID.3 has this: https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... h-uwb-5438
Also, the keys do sleep if they’re not moved.
So to answer your question, yes the ID.3 is more secure regarding keyless entry.
This is how UWB’s theft protection works:
The chips integrated in the car (for example, on all four doors and the trunk) communicate with each other and in addition with other mini transmitters, for example on the car key. The six chips constantly transmit signals back and forth, “talking” to each other. The exact position of the car owner is determined from the time measured when these signals are sent and received – the so-called “Time-of-Flight”. A previous technique of intercepting the radio signal, for the purpose of vehicle theft, is no longer possible.
With conventional keyless systems, only the signal strength of the key is measured: The larger it is, the closer the user is to their vehicle. This signal could be relayed and used by unauthorized persons.
UWB enables a real centimeter-precise and, above all, tamper-proof positioning control of the user – at any time and at the speed of light. At the same time, this is a real plausibility check that the rightful driver or passenger is approaching the vehicle. The car can also unlock individual doors to suit the position from which the driver approaches the car.
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It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.
Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found
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rawws wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:56 amIt triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.
Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found
This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.
If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.
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OK, thanks. I was just interested. I think our up-coming LIfe doesn't have this.rawws wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:56 amIt triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.
Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found
I know the keys go into sleep mode but I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch that stops and signals getting to the keys or out of the pouch as a secondary security measure. These are available on Amazon for just a few pounds
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If it has UWB does that mean it could support Apple's CarKey feature?Utumno wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:43 pmrawws wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:56 amIt triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.
Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found
This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.
If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.
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metcast wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:22 pmIf it has UWB does that mean it could support Apple's CarKey feature?Utumno wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:43 pmrawws wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:56 am
It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.
Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found
This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.
If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.
Theoretically, yes, though actual support will very much depend on how VW have implemented their in-vehicle systems and whether the whole implementation can be soft-upgraded to support Apple CarKey.
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UWB is not susceptible to replay or relay attacks unlike conventional "rolling code" keyless systems and uses "time of flight" calculations (among others) between the key and the vehicle to measure how far away the key is from the vehicle as well as end-to-end cryptography on the actual radio connection. The exploits foiled by the faraday pouch approach basically aren't possible in the first place with UWB technology, so a faraday pouch for a UWB ID.3 key is basically a tinfoil hat
Obviously by all means continue using Faraday pouches if it gives you a heightened feeling of security, as it can't hurt, but you should also feel reassured that there's genuine proper digital security engineering in the UWB implementations as well and if you choose to ditch the Faraday pouch you're still state-of-the-art secure.
This is genuinely one of the things that VW got "right" in the ID.3.
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Thanks I didn't realise this and feel a bit more confident now.Utumno wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:46 pm
UWB is not susceptible to replay or relay attacks unlike conventional "rolling code" keyless systems and uses "time of flight" calculations (among others) between the key and the vehicle to measure how far away the key is from the vehicle as well as end-to-end cryptography on the actual radio connection. The exploits foiled by the faraday pouch approach basically aren't possible in the first place with UWB technology, so a faraday pouch for a UWB ID.3 key is basically a tinfoil hat
Obviously by all means continue using Faraday pouches if it gives you a heightened feeling of security, as it can't hurt, but you should also feel reassured that there's genuine proper digital security engineering in the UWB implementations as well and if you choose to ditch the Faraday pouch you're still state-of-the-art secure.
This is genuinely one of the things that VW got "right" in the ID.3.
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