Keyless entry id3 security

[Utumno]

Just out of interest, does the keyless entry trigger as you, say, walk past the car but don't want to actually get into the car?

It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.

Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found

This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.

If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.

[robgarth]

I agree, VW is a superior system although I still keep my keys in Defender Wallets. Peace of mind for about £5 a pair.

[rawws]

Definitely reassuring vw have better secure keyless system

[Scratch]

Just out of interest, does the keyless entry trigger as you, say, walk past the car but don't want to actually get into the car?

It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.

Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found

OK, thanks. I was just interested. I think our up-coming LIfe doesn't have this.

[Idmania3]

I know the keys go into sleep mode but I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch that stops and signals getting to the keys or out of the pouch as a secondary security measure. These are available on Amazon for just a few pounds

[Bromsgroveuser]

I've got a first edition and I've got it set to open as i walk up to it

[epicwinningmaz]

Just out of interest, does the keyless entry trigger as you, say, walk past the car but don't want to actually get into the car?

It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.

Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found

This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.

If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.

If it has UWB does that mean it could support Apple's CarKey feature?

[Utumno]

It triggers when you touch the door handle walking past doesn't activate it.

Most modern cars can be stolen easily by relay theft of keyless entries i was surprised when my neighbours range rover was stolen at night on his driveway in less than 10 seconds, with no break of entry to the car, its as of the car just allowed them to open the door and drove off as if they had key. Was shocked to see the stats on the amount of cars stolen this way past 6 months. How manufactures can get away with this is beyond me massive flaw on keyless technology. I would have thought all keyless cars keys would be recalled for simple fix. Or even advise drivers to switch keyless entry off until solution is found

This situation is much reduced in the last two years due to algorithmic improvements and smarter keys, but the UWB tech in the VW is superior again.

If you are concerned about keyless security on the ID.3, you shouldn’t be due to the way UWB works.

If it has UWB does that mean it could support Apple's CarKey feature?

Theoretically, yes, though actual support will very much depend on how VW have implemented their in-vehicle systems and whether the whole implementation can be soft-upgraded to support Apple CarKey.

[Utumno]

I know the keys go into sleep mode but I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch that stops and signals getting to the keys or out of the pouch as a secondary security measure. These are available on Amazon for just a few pounds

UWB is not susceptible to replay or relay attacks unlike conventional "rolling code" keyless systems and uses "time of flight" calculations (among others) between the key and the vehicle to measure how far away the key is from the vehicle as well as end-to-end cryptography on the actual radio connection. The exploits foiled by the faraday pouch approach basically aren't possible in the first place with UWB technology, so a faraday pouch for a UWB ID.3 key is basically a tinfoil hat

Obviously by all means continue using Faraday pouches if it gives you a heightened feeling of security, as it can't hurt, but you should also feel reassured that there's genuine proper digital security engineering in the UWB implementations as well and if you choose to ditch the Faraday pouch you're still state-of-the-art secure.

This is genuinely one of the things that VW got "right" in the ID.3.

[Idmania3]

I know the keys go into sleep mode but I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch that stops and signals getting to the keys or out of the pouch as a secondary security measure. These are available on Amazon for just a few pounds

UWB is not susceptible to replay or relay attacks unlike conventional "rolling code" keyless systems and uses "time of flight" calculations (among others) between the key and the vehicle to measure how far away the key is from the vehicle as well as end-to-end cryptography on the actual radio connection. The exploits foiled by the faraday pouch approach basically aren't possible in the first place with UWB technology, so a faraday pouch for a UWB ID.3 key is basically a tinfoil hat

Obviously by all means continue using Faraday pouches if it gives you a heightened feeling of security, as it can't hurt, but you should also feel reassured that there's genuine proper digital security engineering in the UWB implementations as well and if you choose to ditch the Faraday pouch you're still state-of-the-art secure.

This is genuinely one of the things that VW got "right" in the ID.3.

Thanks I didn't realise this and feel a bit more confident now.

[tomstring]

My ID.3 on order will be keyless. My current car, a SEAT Ateca xcellence lux, is also keyless. I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch which blocks signals. You can buy them on Amazon.

[Newfie]

My ID.3 on order will be keyless. My current car, a SEAT Ateca xcellence lux, is also keyless. I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch which blocks signals. You can buy them on Amazon.

Can you disable the keyless when you lock your Ateca so that you must use the key fob to unlock it as it will not open without using the unlock on the fob.

[tomstring]

I don’t know sorry. Only problem I had was in the winter when we couldn’t get back into the car after a walk in the snow because the battery in the fob had gone flat (car was new May 2019). With the help of somebody else dismantled part of the door handle to use the key in the barrel and hold the fob against the steering wheel column. Nightmare! Got home with some of the assist functions disabled, changed the battery, everything ok.

[Newfie]

I don’t know sorry. Only problem I had was in the winter when we couldn’t get back into the car after a walk in the snow because the battery in the fob had gone flat (car was new May 2019). With the help of somebody else dismantled part of the door handle to use the key in the barrel and hold the fob against the steering wheel column. Nightmare! Got home with some of the assist functions disabled, changed the battery, everything ok.

I only asked as it is a function you can do on the Tiguan and gives a little more security when it comes to keyless vehicle theft.

[Utumno]

My ID.3 on order will be keyless. My current car, a SEAT Ateca xcellence lux, is also keyless. I keep my keys in a Faraday pouch which blocks signals. You can buy them on Amazon.

Your SEAT uses rolling radio codes for keyless entry. Your ID.3 does not, it uses UWB which is a completely different technology.

There are definitely cases for putting UWB keys in pouches (to prevent the car detecting the key proximity where vehicle and key are very close to each other for example!) but radio theft security is not one of them.

[tomstring]

Ok thanks everyone.

[ENEMUK]

This discussion is for keyless entry. Can anyone comment on the security of the standard remote locking, where you push a button on the key to unlock. How much of the above discussion applies to this technology? Can the signal be captured when the button is pressed?