please recommend me a charger

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
bitmanEV
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:59 am
Contact:

Post by bitmanEV »

Yes I was wrong; single phase AC charging is indeed 7.4kW and 3 phase AC charging is 11kW AC on the ID.3

So yes the ID.3 will charge with 11kW max on either an 11kW or 22kW AC 3 phase charge posts

But my discussion was actually about the fact that it's better to have 22kW charge posts then 11kW charge posts
Reason for that is that lots of Asian BEV only have single phase onboard AC chargers and most of them are 7.4kW max they will fall back to 3.6kW when connected to a 11kW 3 phase AC charge post (16A - 3 phase AC / 3 x 3.6kW = 11kW)

BTW A local VW dealer told me that the 45kWh ID.3 had only single phase AC onboard charger hence my confusion and should have checked that my self
SWMBO / NHS Nurse; Model 3 SR+ | White | Black Interior | AP
Me; MK1 LEAF 24 kWh | Black | Cream Interior | Possible upgrading to ID.3

Referrals Octopus; share.octopus.energy/cream-kiwi-443 Tesla; https://www.tesla.com/referral/elizabeth41441

User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

bitmanEV wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:58 pm Yes I was wrong; single phase AC charging is indeed 7.4kW and 3 phase AC charging is 11kW AC on the ID.3

So yes the ID.3 will charge with 11kW max on either an 11kW or 22kW AC 3 phase charge posts

But my discussion was actually about the fact that it's better to have 22kW charge posts then 11kW charge posts
Reason for that is that lots of Asian BEV only have single phase onboard AC chargers and most of them are 7.4kW max they will fall back to 3.6kW when connected to a 11kW 3 phase AC charge post (16A - 3 phase AC / 3 x 3.6kW = 11kW)

BTW A local VW dealer told me that the 45kWh ID.3 had only single phase AC onboard charger hence my confusion and should have checked that my self

No worries ! Though there are so few 11kW-only charge posts around that I'm not sure it's that much of an issue. A quick squint at Zap-map shows what must be less than a hundred 11kW AC Mennekes chargers nationwide (number by ready-reckoning/guesswork, I wasn't about to count them individually!).
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
beacon39
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:12 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Post by beacon39 »

scott28tt wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:09 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:26 am I'd only use a granny charger if I couldn't get a proper home charger it's a stop gap for most. Charging at around 10 miles per hour, more likely to be pulling most of that at full 15-18p per kWh rather than 5p per kWh on Octopus GO.

You start doing 2 or 3 x 4 hour charges at £5 a pop instead of £1.50 a pop (with Octopus Go) and that 7.4kWh charger starts to pay for itself in under a year, as well as being massively more convenient.

Spot on.
It ain't necessarily so. Yes, if you just focus on EV charging cost alone there is an apparent saving with the home charger on cheap rates, but you have to take into account the overall cost of electricity (and gas) supply to your home. Admittedly, I'm an above average energy consumer, living as I do in northeast Scotland, but the increase in overall energy costs for Octopus compared to my present provider would exceed the home charger saving (electricity tariff 20p compared to 17p per kWh, gas 4p compared to 3p). I'm not saying a home charger is not the better option, convenience being an important factor, just pointing out that these cheap rate offers from energy companies may not be as good for everyone as they make out. You need to do the sums.
Life Pro Performance, Stonewashed Blue - East Derry alloys - Heat pump
Aberdeen, Scotland
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

beacon39 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:23 am
scott28tt wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:09 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:26 am I'd only use a granny charger if I couldn't get a proper home charger it's a stop gap for most. Charging at around 10 miles per hour, more likely to be pulling most of that at full 15-18p per kWh rather than 5p per kWh on Octopus GO.

You start doing 2 or 3 x 4 hour charges at £5 a pop instead of £1.50 a pop (with Octopus Go) and that 7.4kWh charger starts to pay for itself in under a year, as well as being massively more convenient.

Spot on.
It ain't necessarily so. Yes, if you just focus on EV charging cost alone there is an apparent saving with the home charger on cheap rates, but you have to take into account the overall cost of electricity (and gas) supply to your home. Admittedly, I'm an above average energy consumer, living as I do in northeast Scotland, but the increase in overall energy costs for Octopus compared to my present provider would exceed the home charger saving (electricity tariff 20p compared to 17p per kWh, gas 4p compared to 3p). I'm not saying a home charger is not the better option, convenience being an important factor, just pointing out that these cheap rate offers from energy companies may not be as good for everyone as they make out. You need to do the sums.

Agreed 100% that home charging economics depend massively on your tariff.

However Octopus Go in northern Scotland is 16.92p/kWh except during the 5p/kWh 4 hour period. With Go Faster you can move and/or extend that 4 hour period too.

Seems cheaper than the 17p/kWh your current provider is providing.

What am I missing?
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
Waldemar
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:25 pm

Post by Waldemar »

VW recommend pod point but I used a Sync EV wall mounted charger with 7.4KWh at home. They were the only charger available at the time that could fit promptly. SyncEV documentation is sparse and poor. If I had a choice again I'd go with pod point, not SyncEV. Problem with SyncEV is that unless you wait up till 11.30pm (I generally retire to sleep before then) you have to set schedule to start immediate charging before 11:30pm , say 9.30-10.30pm, or no charging takes place. It needs a trickle like charge going in from the outset or the car locks out subsequent charging. I found this out by setting the schedule early evening to start late pm and going out in the morning to find no charging had taken place. Wouldnt know if other chargers suffer the same problem. In fairness it whacks in 7+kw for the 1st hour or so, then about 2kw before 11.30pm, then 7kw+ after 11.30pm. That's about an hour at 22p/KWh to begin with. Found this out by trial and error. Also I frequently have to isolate the charger for a minute and re-power it for it to work. SyncEV claim this is an drop in internet signal (not the case for me at all). RFID card doesn't seem to be reliable either. Not ideal.

Eon now do an economy 7 tariff for EVs. 11.30pm to 7.30am at about 11p/KWh. I was one of the 1st to go onto it for EV's.
The ID3 itself is so far without faults after 4 months. Only criticism, no proper hard copy manual and the on-line beta version is a pain and not 100% accurate.

Life Pro Performance
Solihull West Midlands
MotMot
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 pm

Post by MotMot »

Every charger seems to have issues based on looking at forums. Even the much feted Zappi's have problems getting set up... (despite being 250+ more than most other ones). Podpoints break, Wallbox has an old model raspberry pi inside, EOmini's have horrible software etc.. etc.. etc.. Ohme works via a commando socket (I think - though their new one looks nice...)

Its even harder if you don't want a charger the size of a carry on bag bolted to the side of your house..

To me there seems to be no market leader in terms of cost of £500 (+/- £50) inc govt grant - that doesnt look like a mini spaceship bolted to your house, with decent software that doesn't break down, with good customer service (that really you shouldnt need) etc.. I have been asked by a friend to reccomend a brand and I've really struggled. It feels like picking the least worst...
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

MotMot wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:38 pm Every charger seems to have issues based on looking at forums. Even the much feted Zappi's have problems getting set up... (despite being 250+ more than most other ones). Podpoints break, Wallbox has an old model raspberry pi inside, EOmini's have horrible software etc.. etc.. etc.. Ohme works via a commando socket (I think - though their new one looks nice...)

Its even harder if you don't want a charger the size of a carry on bag bolted to the side of your house..

To me there seems to be no market leader in terms of cost of £500 (+/- £50) inc govt grant - that doesnt look like a mini spaceship bolted to your house, with decent software that doesn't break down, with good customer service (that really you shouldnt need) etc.. I have been asked by a friend to reccomend a brand and I've really struggled. It feels like picking the least worst...

Just my $0.02 ... the new Ohme Home Pro might turn out a good model in this price range, but it's very new and thus hard to recommend. The Hypervolt is I think the best current compromise available, but it's a bit over in terms of price.

Agreed it's difficult.
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
beacon39
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:12 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Post by beacon39 »

8-)
Utumno wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:17 pm
beacon39 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:23 am
scott28tt wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:09 pm


Spot on.
It ain't necessarily so. Yes, if you just focus on EV charging cost alone there is an apparent saving with the home charger on cheap rates, but you have to take into account the overall cost of electricity (and gas) supply to your home. Admittedly, I'm an above average energy consumer, living as I do in northeast Scotland, but the increase in overall energy costs for Octopus compared to my present provider would exceed the home charger saving (electricity tariff 20p compared to 17p per kWh, gas 4p compared to 3p). I'm not saying a home charger is not the better option, convenience being an important factor, just pointing out that these cheap rate offers from energy companies may not be as good for everyone as they make out. You need to do the sums.

Agreed 100% that home charging economics depend massively on your tariff.

However Octopus Go in northern Scotland is 16.92p/kWh except during the 5p/kWh 4 hour period. With Go Faster you can move and/or extend that 4 hour period too.

Seems cheaper than the 17p/kWh your current provider is providing.

What am I missing?
The cheapest tariff quoted by Octopus for me today is 18.96p/kWh. My figures above were based on quotes in July and were simply for demonstration. I also checked EDF, BG, Shell, Scottish power and others and there was no significant saving for me from their EV tariffs. But hey, the actual tariff is irrelevant to the point I was making but thanks for checking anyway. 8-)
Life Pro Performance, Stonewashed Blue - East Derry alloys - Heat pump
Aberdeen, Scotland
Squimpy
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:16 pm

Post by Squimpy »

Helllo, I'm new to ID3s but Have been an EV driver for a couple of years. I have been very happy with my PodPoint tethered charger. Pod Point recently introduced a good home scheduling system via their app. It enables you to make the most of something like the 'Octopus Go' tariff (5p per Kw between 00:30 and 04:30) and only 15p per Kw standard.
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

beacon39 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:56 pm The cheapest tariff quoted by Octopus for me today is 18.96p/kWh. My figures above were based on quotes in July and were simply for demonstration. I also checked EDF, BG, Shell, Scottish power and others and there was no significant saving for me from their EV tariffs. But hey, the actual tariff is irrelevant to the point I was making but thanks for checking anyway. 8-)

I've never understood why Octopus don't pitch Go (or Agile) at the point of quotation, but they genuinely don't seem to. And again I agree; home charging is a tariffs game.

For me being able to put ~120 miles in the "tank" for ~£1.50 on Octopus Go each night is a no-brainer for our travel patterns and makes the expense of a charger/install worth it.
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
Cherry
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:34 pm

Post by Cherry »

Has anyone created a list of chargers on the market, cost, features, warranty, maintenance costs and reliability?

Which particular features should one be looking for when making a decision to buy?
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
01 March preferred collection
monkeyhanger
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger »

My Ohme has been excellent so far. Only 1 occasion noted when charging was instigated, ignoring scheduled cheap times, soon resolved. Otherwise it has faultlessly charged in the 4 hour cheap Octoous GO window, as requested and was a breeze to set up to do so. People have been known to go the slightly dodgy commando socket route of installation, but mine is installed properly as per current regs.

I have no reason not to recommend one.

EDF just been advertising 4.5p per kWh overnight on TV (not sure how long in the night it lasts), so potentially other options to Octopus.
Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

Audi S3 - because I hate rapid charging for long distance driving.

Octopus referral: https://share.octopus.energy/lush-fawn-565
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

monkeyhanger wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:36 am My Ohme has been excellent so far. Only 1 occasion noted when charging was instigated, ignoring scheduled cheap times, soon resolved. Otherwise it has faultlessly charged in the 4 hour cheap Octoous GO window, as requested and was a breeze to set up to do so. People have been known to go the slightly dodgy commando socket route of installation, but mine is installed properly as per current regs.

I have no reason not to recommend one.

EDF just been advertising 4.5p per kWh overnight on TV (not sure how long in the night it lasts), so potentially other options to Octopus.

Its a shame people aren't doing the right thing in getting their existing commando sockets brought up to regs. There's nothing dodgy with the commando route when it's done properly.
Last edited by Utumno on Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
gailjon
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:16 am

Post by gailjon »

monkeyhanger wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:36 am My Ohme has been excellent so far. Only 1 occasion noted when charging was instigated, ignoring scheduled cheap times, soon resolved. Otherwise it has faultlessly charged in the 4 hour cheap Octoous GO window, as requested and was a breeze to set up to do so. People have been known to go the slightly dodgy commando socket route of installation, but mine is installed properly as per current regs.

I have no reason not to recommend one.

EDF just been advertising 4.5p per kWh overnight on TV (not sure how long in the night it lasts), so potentially other options to Octopus.
The website has the details now:

GoElectric single-rate tariff costs from just 18.61p per kWh all day, depending on where you live.

GoElectric 35 comes with 5 hours off-peak charging every evening 12 am to 5 am GMT. It costs just 4.5p per kWh during off-peak hours and from 22.79p per kWh during peak hours, depending on where you live.

GoElectric 98 comes with off-peak charging every weekday 9 pm to 7 am GMT and all weekend. It costs just 11.50p per kWh during off-peak hours and from 24.89p per kWh during peak hours, depending on where you live.
ID.3 Family, Andoya Alloys, Heat Pump. Grab a £50 Octopus Credit https://share.octopus.energy/silk-guppy-104
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

gailjon wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:16 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:36 am My Ohme has been excellent so far. Only 1 occasion noted when charging was instigated, ignoring scheduled cheap times, soon resolved. Otherwise it has faultlessly charged in the 4 hour cheap Octoous GO window, as requested and was a breeze to set up to do so. People have been known to go the slightly dodgy commando socket route of installation, but mine is installed properly as per current regs.

I have no reason not to recommend one.

EDF just been advertising 4.5p per kWh overnight on TV (not sure how long in the night it lasts), so potentially other options to Octopus.
The website has the details now:

GoElectric single-rate tariff costs from just 18.61p per kWh all day, depending on where you live.

GoElectric 35 comes with 5 hours off-peak charging every evening 12 am to 5 am GMT. It costs just 4.5p per kWh during off-peak hours and from 22.79p per kWh during peak hours, depending on where you live.

GoElectric 98 comes with off-peak charging every weekday 9 pm to 7 am GMT and all weekend. It costs just 11.50p per kWh during off-peak hours and from 24.89p per kWh during peak hours, depending on where you live.

Oof. Those 'peak' rates are a bit eye-watering. Think I'll be sticking with Octopus Go at 5.00p/kWh 00:30-04:30 daily and 13.80p/kWh !

Always good to see more entrants into the EV tariff field though.

Screenshot 2021-09-10 at 14.57.57.png

(above tariff comparison based on smart meter readings for our property processed by Guy Lipman's website - Go for us remains by far the cheapest option based on our usage)
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
MotMot
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 pm

Post by MotMot »

From another forum - I think with the EDF tariff the gas prices are decent - whereas the Octopus ones are less so. Therefore if you have a significant gas consumption (as many people with gas CH will) then the EDF deal works out cheaper… (by a fair bit someone worked out). Both Octopus and EDF require you to have dual fuel.

I’m on an OVO non EV tariff where its 15p kWh any time… probably going to keep that until it expires (march) then see what’s going on…

(Edit - its not my Calcs so the above might be wrong etc..)
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

MotMot wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:19 pm Both Octopus and EDF require you to have dual fuel.

I didn't know this, and indeed can find no facts to support this except on forums. Nowhere on Octopus's website, including the T&C's specific to Go, does it stipulate that you have to have gas with Octopus as well. It only stipulates you have to have a Smart meter. I wonder whether this is some people being mis-sold by Octopus.

I know of three people personally with their electricity provided by Octopus Go, with their gas by a different provider so perhaps the dual fuel requirement is somehow "new". Here we have no mains gas (we're rural) so all our electricity comes from Octopus Go.
I’m on an OVO non EV tariff where its 15p kWh any time
That's a nice compromise, and easy to grok :-)
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

In fact the more I look at it the more I'm increasingly convinced this "dual fuel Octopus Go" thing is nonsense. Look at https://octopus.energy/vwpassenger/
What if I'm already an Octopus customer?
You're still eligible for free miles! If you switch both your gas and electricity supply to one of our standard tariffs you’ll receive a £90 credit. If you decide to switch to only one fuel type, you'll receive £45 credit. Drop us an email at existingevoffer@octoenergy.com to take the offer.
By definition then, Octopus is happy to switch you to Go for electricity only, but they'll halve the offer as you're only taking one fuel type. Thus they must be expecting, and supporting, single "fuel" switching to Go.
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
MotMot
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 pm

Post by MotMot »

I may well be wrong! Perhaps the dual fuel savings with EDf are better than getting gas alone with OG?

Getting info on any tarriff for any company seems hard at the moment! Often buried in the website somewhere…
User avatar
Utumno
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:34 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by Utumno »

Possibly, but I can't really work out how much cheaper it'd have to be in order to make it worthwhile. Trying to compare energy tariffs is diabolically difficult in the UK, I completely agree.
Tesla Model Y Long Range
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour (long story :lol:)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203
Post Reply