Help with deciding on ID.3 Style (204 BHP) vs Family (145 BHP) trim

[jayneemac]

High all,

We're trying to make a decision on an equipment pack for our ID.3 and need some advice.

Initially were all set to go for a Style 58 kWh 204 BHP with upgraded 19" alloys (car preconfigured with these wheels).
However there is also a Family version available with 145 BHP and standard East Derry 18" wheels.

Both cars will come in at about the same monthly payment on PCP, with approx. 1,500 extra in GFV on the Family car after the 36 month term.

So should I care about the additional horse power on the Style, over the extra Comfort and Assistance packs on the Family - dual zone climate control, under floor storage in boot, reversing cam, advanced keyless, alarm, proactive occupant protection etc.

Car usage will be mostly city driving, school runs with the odd short motorway journey.

Any advice or opinions from current owners would be most welcome.

Thanks,
JM

[epicwinningmaz]

High all,

We're trying to make a decision on an equipment pack for our ID.3 and need some advice.

Initially were all set to go for a Style 58 kWh 204 BHP with upgraded 19" alloys (car preconfigured with these wheels).
However there is also a Family version available with 145 BHP and standard East Derry 18" wheels.

Both cars will come in at about the same monthly payment on PCP, with approx. 1,500 extra in GFV on the Family car after the 36 month term.

So should I care about the additional horse power on the Style, over the extra Comfort and Assistance packs on the Family - dual zone climate control, under floor storage in boot, reversing cam, advanced keyless, alarm, proactive occupant protection etc.

Car usage will be mostly city driving, school runs with the odd short motorway journey.

Any advice or opinions from current owners would be most welcome.

Thanks,
JM

Ignore the text descriptions, the only thing that should be different between each trim is whether they have the 'plus' pack or not. Both Style and Family should have the same Comfort and Assistance packs. The only difference is the wheels and Design Pack Plus (pano roof). According to this table the Style isn't available in the 58kWh version.

[monkeyhanger]

Anyone with 204ps will tell you to get it, anyone with 145/150ps will tell you it's enough. Sorry. I have a Life and a Family. Paying extra for the Family was an easy decision to make as my Family was only £825 extra over the Life we already had.

All I can say on the performance front is that 204ps does me, and until quite recently I was in a 300ps Golf R. The power is so usable.

I personally wouldn't pay out for 19" alloys, the East Derrys are fine and less likely to get kerbed.

All the extras on the Family don't bother me when I'm in the Life - the kids do like the Pano roof that the Family has though.

If you really are predominantly City driving, tgat extra 59ps will only really matter going up a long and steep hill on a motorway. How often will you do that?

[Newfie]

I thought the Style only comes with the 45kWh Pure Performance 150ps motor? Well according to VW's configurator it does.

[monkeyhanger]

High all,

We're trying to make a decision on an equipment pack for our ID.3 and need some advice.

Initially were all set to go for a Style 58 kWh 204 BHP with upgraded 19" alloys (car preconfigured with these wheels).
However there is also a Family version available with 145 BHP and standard East Derry 18" wheels.

Both cars will come in at about the same monthly payment on PCP, with approx. 1,500 extra in GFV on the Family car after the 36 month term.

So should I care about the additional horse power on the Style, over the extra Comfort and Assistance packs on the Family - dual zone climate control, under floor storage in boot, reversing cam, advanced keyless, alarm, proactive occupant protection etc.

Car usage will be mostly city driving, school runs with the odd short motorway journey.

Any advice or opinions from current owners would be most welcome.

Thanks,
JM

Ignore the text descriptions, the only thing that should be different between each trim is whether they have the 'plus' pack or not. Both Style and Family should have the same Comfort and Assistance packs. The only difference is the wheels and Design Pack Plus (pano roof). According to this table the Style isn't available in the 58kWh version.

CleanShot 2021-09-06 at 15.26.19.png

According to that chart, you can't get a Style Pro Performance with 204ps. Was it previously available (old stock)? If so, I'd be trying to haggle some more money off. If there's a p/x involved, check on Motorway.co.uk for value vs the pumps price offered - nearly new car values have gone up a lot lately.

[Utumno]

High all,

We're trying to make a decision on an equipment pack for our ID.3 and need some advice.

Initially were all set to go for a Style 58 kWh 204 BHP with upgraded 19" alloys (car preconfigured with these wheels).
However there is also a Family version available with 145 BHP and standard East Derry 18" wheels.

Both cars will come in at about the same monthly payment on PCP, with approx. 1,500 extra in GFV on the Family car after the 36 month term.

So should I care about the additional horse power on the Style, over the extra Comfort and Assistance packs on the Family - dual zone climate control, under floor storage in boot, reversing cam, advanced keyless, alarm, proactive occupant protection etc.

Car usage will be mostly city driving, school runs with the odd short motorway journey.

Any advice or opinions from current owners would be most welcome.

Thanks,
JM

That Style would have been ordered at some point before the 1-May I think, because in that brochure the Style is only available in 45kWh guise (Pure Performance). Presumably at some point prior to that, the Style was available in Pro Performance/58kWh, but I can't confirm that.

Also, the Family doesn't have, and as far as I'm aware never has had, "standard East Derry 18" wheels". It's always had the steel wheels and the plastic bin lids - alloys have been an option (aside; I'm sure someone will pop up and tell me I'm wrong ). I also don't think the Style has a pano roof, whereas I think the Family always has.

If it was me, mostly city driving, I'd take the Family. Higher GFV, smaller wheels for a more comfortable ride, probably no appreciable performance difference in that use case between 145PS and 204PS.

[jayneemac]

Thanks all for the replies, sorry I should have mentioned that I'm in Ireland.

There are some limited (old?) pre-MY22 stock available in the Style 58kWh 204bhp.
The Family has the Comfort PLUS, Design PLUS and the Assistance pack in addition to the Style trim.

With regard to haggling, this is my first new car purchase and there is no trade-in.
Should I expect a discount over the recommended on the road price from the VW Dealer?

Thanks again folks.

[monkeyhanger]

Should I expect a discount over the recommended on the road price from the VW Dealer?

Hell Yes!

The grants and VW finance deposit contributions available in the UK muddy the waters a bit (not sure what you get in Eire on that score).

Here in the UK, grant and finance contributions aside, I'd expect 8-10% off list price.

Do you have car broker websites in Eire, equivalent to "Drivethedeal" or "car wow" here in the UK?

[Utumno]

Thanks all for the replies, sorry I should have mentioned that I'm in Ireland.

There are some limited (old?) pre-MY22 stock available in the Style 58kWh 204bhp.
The Family has the Comfort PLUS, Design PLUS and the Assistance pack in addition to the Style trim.

With regard to haggling, this is my first new car purchase and there is no trade-in.
Should I expect a discount over the recommended on the road price from the VW Dealer?

Thanks again folks.

Ah, the mist clears !

I personally wouldn't trade the creature comforts for an extra 50PS. YMMV, of course.

[jayneemac]

If it was me, mostly city driving, I'd take the Family. Higher GFV, smaller wheels for a more comfortable ride, probably no appreciable performance difference in that use case between 145PS and 204PS.

Ah, the mist clears !

I personally wouldn't trade the creature comforts for an extra 50PS. YMMV, of course.

Thanks @Utumno, I'm leaning towards this too re. the GFV and the extra safety and creature comforts

Hell Yes!

The grants and VW finance deposit contributions available in the UK muddy the waters a bit (not sure what you get in Eire on that score).

Here in the UK, grant and finance contributions aside, I'd expect 8-10% off list price.

Do you have car broker websites in Eire, equivalent to "Drivethedeal" or "car wow" here in the UK?

Thanks @monkeyhanger, yes we have an EV grant up to 5K.
But as with most things in this country there is an "Irish" tax and we tend to pay way over the odds than other EU countries...

And really VW, why does it have to be so confusing with so many diff trims, equipment packs from one region to the next?

[Cherry]

Should I expect a discount over the recommended on the road price from the VW Dealer?

Hell Yes!

The grants and VW finance deposit contributions available in the UK muddy the waters a bit (not sure what you get in Eire on that score).

Here in the UK, grant and finance contributions aside, I'd expect 8-10% off list price.

Do you have car broker websites in Eire, equivalent to "Drivethedeal" or "car wow" here in the UK?

I certainly cannot get 8-10% off list price if I exclude the £2500 government grant and VW finance contribution. These should not be included in the discounts as they are not discounts. Everyone can get them. One is a government funded grant and the second a VW contribution (not dealer discount). Even DriveTheDeal (DTD) do not give 8-10% off list. They include the government grants and VW contribution in their figures. DTD and CarWow deliberately mislead the buyer with headline savings. DTD savings are far better and you can get close to the lower end of what you quote. It is not easy to beat DTD in this market. Some dealers scoff at DTD and say they will offer 1% discount and another group offer 2%. They do not want business. Since the starting point is DTD, depending on distance add on the cost for transporter delivery to your home if you want a local deal.

I just wonder what DTD are paid by the dealer as a commission!

[van]

You haven't said whether you have test driven yet? That should help you get a feel for whether you need the extra power or not. Pro performance in Eco mode is allegedly the same as Pro. A decent dealer will let you have one for a couple of hours at least so you can drive how you usually do. What bhp does your current car have? Does that work for you? Do you want to screech away from the lights or are you a more sedate driver? All personal decisions.

Personally I like the load through hatch and the pano roof of the Family. What do you have in your current car and what would you miss?
Ours doesn't have most of the electronic gadgets discussed in this forum and elsewhere so they aren't on our priority list. What do you care about? It's going to be yours after all (8-0)

[Cherry]

You haven't said whether you have test driven yet? That should help you get a feel for whether you need the extra power or not. Pro performance in Eco mode is allegedly the same as Pro. A decent dealer will let you have one for a couple of hours at least so you can drive how you usually do. What bhp does your current car have? Does that work for you? Do you want to screech away from the lights or are you a more sedate driver? All personal decisions.

Personally I like the load through hatch and the pano roof of the Family. What do you have in your current car and what would you miss?
Ours doesn't have most of the electronic gadgets discussed in this forum and elsewhere so they aren't on our priority list. What do you care about? It's going to be yours after all (8-0)

Wow, I have no decent dealers near me. My local dealer limited my wife to 20 mins test drive. She was stuck in traffic and did 30 mins!
Dealers know many want a test drive and then expect DTD discounts, so they do not get the business after all.
Soon we may well charged for a test drive!

[van]

Our nearest Citroën dealer let us have an eC4 for an afternoon so I asked our nearest vw one for a couple of hours, which they were OK with. Didn't need anywhere near that time but nice to have it. For some reason the vw salesman was unable to produce a pcp quote correctly. Tried twice in the showroom, first missed of govt grant, then incorrect period. A week later he had still failed to manage so drove a bit further to another dealer who got it right first time (we weren't in the showroom all week waiting!) and we ordered from them.

It's worth persisting if there's other dealers in a reasonable drive. You could make a day of it! Particularly if this your first ev.

[monkeyhanger]

Should I expect a discount over the recommended on the road price from the VW Dealer?

Hell Yes!

The grants and VW finance deposit contributions available in the UK muddy the waters a bit (not sure what you get in Eire on that score).

Here in the UK, grant and finance contributions aside, I'd expect 8-10% off list price.

Do you have car broker websites in Eire, equivalent to "Drivethedeal" or "car wow" here in the UK?

I certainly cannot get 8-10% off list price if I exclude the £2500 government grant and VW finance contribution. These should not be included in the discounts as they are not discounts. Everyone can get them. One is a government funded grant and the second a VW contribution (not dealer discount). Even DriveTheDeal (DTD) do not give 8-10% off list. They include the government grants and VW contribution in their figures. DTD and CarWow deliberately mislead the buyer with headline savings. DTD savings are far better and you can get close to the lower end of what you quote. It is not easy to beat DTD in this market. Some dealers scoff at DTD and say they will offer 1% discount and another group offer 2%. They do not want business. Since the starting point is DTD, depending on distance add on the cost for transporter delivery to your home if you want a local deal.

I just wonder what DTD are paid by the dealer as a commission!

I didn't include the finance contribution or grant in the discounts (all new prices below) to get to 8 -10%:

Life Pro Performance with Glacier White paint and East Derry wheels has a list (inc grant) price of £33550 and can be got for £26912 on DTD currently. That's a 19.7% discount inc grant and deposit, or 8.2% discount if you remove those first: £29300 > £26912. I paid a little more than that for mine - the RRP was about £800 higher then and I paid £27400 (DTD price was £27916 at the time).

My other car is a Family Pro Performance with Manganese Grey paint and East Derry wheels. List price = £36270 (before Grant etc), DTD price is £29390, and I paid £28250 for mine. So list is £32020 after grant and deposit contribution (new rules mean that paint and optional wheels don't add to grant threshold, base car is under £35k). DTD discount is 8.2% without considering grant and deposit contribution, my price was with 11.8% effective discount.

To get deals like that, you want to be dealing with a large group like Listers, Heritage, Lookers, JCT600 etc and aim for the end of a quarter to do your haggling - if offering you an amazing deal is going to nab the group a huge volume bonus, they'll lose money on that last car if they have to in order to get the bonus.
8% discount (excluding grant and deposit contribution) achievable just with current DTD prices.

Autotrader also frequently advertise in stock new cars near to DTD prices if you can't be bothered to wait.

[Cherry]

I didn't include the finance contribution or grant in the discounts (all new prices below) to get to 8 -10%:

Life Pro Performance with Glacier White paint and East Derry wheels has a list (inc grant) price of £33550 and can be got for £26912 on DTD currently. That's a 19.7% discount inc grant and deposit, or 8.2% discount if you remove those first: £29300 > £26912. I paid a little more than that for mine - the RRP was about £800 higher then and I paid £27400 (DTD price was £27916 at the time).

My other car is a Family Pro Performance with Manganese Grey paint and East Derry wheels. List price = £36270 (before Grant etc), DTD price is £29390, and I paid £28250 for mine. So list is £32020 after grant and deposit contribution (new rules mean that paint and optional wheels don't add to grant threshold, base car is under £35k). DTD discount is 8.2% without considering grant and deposit contribution, my price was with 11.8% effective discount.

To get deals like that, you want to be dealing with a large group like Listers, Heritage, Lookers, JCT600 etc and aim for the end of a quarter to do your haggling - if offering you an amazing deal is going to nab the group a huge volume bonus, they'll lose money on that last car if they have to in order to get the bonus.
8% discount (excluding grant and deposit contribution) achievable just with current DTD prices.

Autotrader also frequently advertise in stock new cars near to DTD prices if you can't be bothered to wait.

First, I suspect you mean £33,550 excluding £2500 grant deduction.

But, I dispute your calculations.

List £33,550 PCP price £26,912.31. Real non- dealer discounted price without grant deducted = £26,912.31 + £2,500 government grant + £1,750 VW contrib' = £31,162.31
Real DTD discount = £35,550 - £31,162.31 = £2,387.69. This I think we agree is the actual DTD dealer discount.

DTD real % Discount = DTD discount/Full List Price * 100 (do not reduce list price by £2500).
£2387.69/£35,550 * 100 = 7.12% and not 8.2%

List £36,270. DTD = £29,390. DTD real discount = £36,270 - £29,390 - £2500 - £1750 = £2,630.
Real DTD discount = £2,630/£36,270 * 100 = 7.25% and not 8.2%

Please explain why I am wrong!

For Family Pro with metallic paint an East Derry alloys the current discount is c7.5%.

Remember, if the list price is £30,000 for an electric car and DTD cash price was £27,500 the DTD discount is £30,000-£27,500-£2500 = ZERO (£2,500 off is the government discount. It is not a DTD discount).

So DTD real % discount = £0/£30,000 * 100 = 0% No real discount.
DTD would falsely claim a discount of £2500/£30,000 * 100 = 8.3% Yet, they gave zero discount. The government knocked off £2,500. These are the false discount claims!

However, DTD prices appear unbeatable at the moment!

Regards

[Utumno]

You're both right. DTD's discount is all of these things :

* 8.15% with grant and finance contribution
* 7.51% with no grant, but finance contribution
* 7.12% with grant and finance contribution both excluded

However because literally everybody gets the grant and your dealer will also be quoting that as a discount, Monkeyhanger's discount is the real representative discount over the price your dealer would be quoting you. So in this case you're both right, but Monkeyhanger is righter in my opinion.

These are the false discount claims!

They're on the same basis as the dealer you walk into would quote you. And it's really very clear what they're doing, because they state it upfront on their website before you request a quote :-

[Cherry]

You're both right. DTD's discount is all of these things :

* 8.15% with grant and finance contribution
* 7.51% with no grant, but finance contribution
* 7.12% with grant and finance contribution both excluded

However because literally everybody gets the grant and your dealer will also be quoting that as a discount, Monkeyhanger's discount is the real representative discount over the price your dealer would be quoting you. So in this case you're both right, but Monkeyhanger is righter in my opinion.

These are the false discount claims!

They're on the same basis as the dealer you walk into would quote you. And it's really very clear what they're doing, because they state it upfront on their website before you request a quote :-

Except:

1. He said he excluded them.
2. At least, I want to know the discount the dealer is giving from their actual margin. I do not want an elevated discount stated. This way I know how hard to push.

I do not know how you calculate your figures. As it is £2,500 off a £35k car is an extra 7.14% off and £1750 PCP deposit is an extra 5% off.
Total reduction from List price approaches 20%. This is why I showed my actual calculations.

I believe Trading Standards are investigating the fake discount claims on EV by DTD and CarWow et al.
As I said, if discount was zero they claim a £2,500 discount is a 7% saving based on the government grant to mislead the ignorant in believing they
are getting a discount when they are not.

DTD is wrong to say discounted selling price. They should state effective price. The reductions are not all discounts.

BTW why does DTD refuse to deliver by transporter? They say the car is too heavy!

[monkeyhanger]

I didn't include the finance contribution or grant in the discounts (all new prices below) to get to 8 -10%:

Life Pro Performance with Glacier White paint and East Derry wheels has a list (inc grant) price of £33550 and can be got for £26912 on DTD currently. That's a 19.7% discount inc grant and deposit, or 8.2% discount if you remove those first: £29300 > £26912. I paid a little more than that for mine - the RRP was about £800 higher then and I paid £27400 (DTD price was £27916 at the time).

My other car is a Family Pro Performance with Manganese Grey paint and East Derry wheels. List price = £36270 (before Grant etc), DTD price is £29390, and I paid £28250 for mine. So list is £32020 after grant and deposit contribution (new rules mean that paint and optional wheels don't add to grant threshold, base car is under £35k). DTD discount is 8.2% without considering grant and deposit contribution, my price was with 11.8% effective discount.

To get deals like that, you want to be dealing with a large group like Listers, Heritage, Lookers, JCT600 etc and aim for the end of a quarter to do your haggling - if offering you an amazing deal is going to nab the group a huge volume bonus, they'll lose money on that last car if they have to in order to get the bonus.
8% discount (excluding grant and deposit contribution) achievable just with current DTD prices.

Autotrader also frequently advertise in stock new cars near to DTD prices if you can't be bothered to wait.

First, I suspect you mean £33,550 excluding £2500 grant deduction.

But, I dispute your calculations.

List £33,550 PCP price £26,912.31. Real non- dealer discounted price without grant deducted = £26,912.31 + £2,500 government grant + £1,750 VW contrib' = £31,162.31
Real DTD discount = £35,550 - £31,162.31 = £2,387.69. This I think we agree is the actual DTD dealer discount.

DTD real % Discount = DTD discount/Full List Price * 100 (do not reduce list price by £2500).
£2387.69/£35,550 * 100 = 7.12% and not 8.2%

List £36,270. DTD = £29,390. DTD real discount = £36,270 - £29,390 - £2500 - £1750 = £2,630.
Real DTD discount = £2,630/£36,270 * 100 = 7.25% and not 8.2%

Please explain why I am wrong!

For Family Pro with metallic paint an East Derry alloys the current discount is c7.5%.

Remember, if the list price is £30,000 for an electric car and DTD cash price was £27,500 the DTD discount is £30,000-£27,500-£2500 = ZERO (£2,500 off is the government discount. It is not a DTD discount).

So DTD real % discount = £0/£30,000 * 100 = 0% No real discount.
DTD would falsely claim a discount of £2500/£30,000 * 100 = 8.3% Yet, they gave zero discount. The government knocked off £2,500. These are the false discount claims!

However, DTD prices appear unbeatable at the moment!

Regards

I dispute your figures. You're using the grant/PCP contribution price in your division - it is incorrect to include those if you're just taking about dealership discount as they don't form part of the pre- dealership discounted price:

£33550 RRP car. Take off the total £4250 incentives and the post-incentive RRP is £29300. That is the price you expect to pay with no discount and taking PCP. £29300 - £26912.31 = £2387.69. This is your dealer discount.

(£2387.69/£29300) x 100 = 8.1% (ok I was 0.1% out on my above figures).

My other figures for the Family (DTD and what I got) are based on the same calculations.

£36270 - £4250 = £32020 post incentive price. £32020 - £29390 DTD price = £2630 dealership discount.
(£2630/£32020) x 100 = 8.2% dealership discount.

£36270 - £4250 = £32020 post incentive price. £32020 - £28250 Heritage price = £3770 dealership discount.
(£3770/£32020) x 100 = 11.8% dealership discount.

You conveniently skip by my price got for the Family, which smashed the DTD price (haven't seen that type of deal recently, but never say never).

Again, I iterate - timing is everything to beat DTD. If a dealership group is aiming to score an £80k quarterly volume bonus from VW and they have to sell 10 cars at a £500 loss each, they will lose £5k to gain £80k. Last week of a quarter is a great time to negotiate with a dealership part of a large group

Basic VW dealership margin is only 5%. They have a potential additional 10% from scoring high on customer satisfaction when VW survey you after you bought your car and up to 12% (retail side, not fleet side) for volume targets.

[monkeyhanger]

You're both right. DTD's discount is all of these things :

* 8.15% with grant and finance contribution
* 7.51% with no grant, but finance contribution
* 7.12% with grant and finance contribution both excluded

However because literally everybody gets the grant and your dealer will also be quoting that as a discount, Monkeyhanger's discount is the real representative discount over the price your dealer would be quoting you. So in this case you're both right, but Monkeyhanger is righter in my opinion.

These are the false discount claims!

They're on the same basis as the dealer you walk into would quote you. And it's really very clear what they're doing, because they state it upfront on their website before you request a quote :-

Except:

1. He said he excluded them.
2. At least, I want to know the discount the dealer is giving from their actual margin. I do not want an elevated discount stated. This way I know how hard to push.

I do not know how you calculate your figures. As it is £2,500 off a £35k car is an extra 7.14% off and £1750 PCP deposit is an extra 5% off.
Total reduction from List price approaches 20%. This is why I showed my actual calculations.

I believe Trading Standards are investigating the fake discount claims on EV by DTD and CarWow et al.
As I said, if discount was zero they claim a £2,500 discount is a 7% saving based on the government grant to mislead the ignorant in believing they
are getting a discount when they are not.

DTD is wrong to say discounted selling price. They should state effective price. The reductions are not all discounts.

BTW Why does DTD refuse to deliver by transporter? They say the car is too heavy!

The discounts I stated was from their actual margin and actual undiscounted price that everyone will have access to. For the purposes of actual discount, don't use the RRP before removing £4250 non-dealership incentives. Real undiscounted price isn't list price, its list price minus PCP contribution and grant.

DTD are clear that the grant forms part of their quoted discount and that you must take PCP also to get their stated price. Claiming credit for the grant is a bit iffy, but we all know they can be pulled or reduced any time - no-one saw the £35k threshold and reduction to £2500 from £3k coming. It's not guaranteed that the givernment won't pull it in the time it takes between placing order and collecting car.