8 week ownership thoughts.

[monkeyhanger]

I doubt most people save money buying electric (unless they live in congestion charge zones).
The pay back time for me compared to an ICE is probably 8-10 years, or even never.
But many people do not look at pay back. It is for pleasure and to obtain fake green credentials!

That "payback" time is dependent on what you're used to paying out for a car. It sounds like (from your diesel Golf issues) you're used to buying a car and keeping it a long time or buying a used car and keeping it well out of warranty.

If you're used to buying the likes of a performance Golf or some other £30k ish car every 3 years then the upfront cost differences and depreciation profile are not far apart.

For me, our Life and Family ID3s cost about the same as a discounted new Golf GTD, the kind of car I'm used to buying. I expect the ID3s to be depreciating no more than £300pm each while I have them, similar expectations for a Golf GTD.

So the purchase/depreciation cost is about the same. However, my running costs are about £18pm extra on my electricity bill vs £220pm petrol/diesel. For me, those 2 ID3s are saving me a genuine £200 pm at the pumps and not costing me any more to own. I'm also saving in VED (before we had the 2 ID3s, we had a Polo GTI @£155pa and A4 Avant @£475pa) to the tune of £50pm equivalent.

If you're used to buying a 4-5 year old £12k Golf and you swapped to a new £28-30k ID3 then overall you might be no better off even with predominantly home charging. If you're used to buying new £28-30k ICE cars and doing average miles, a Life/Family ID3 will save you money overall (in fuelling/VED) if you have a home charger and a tariff like Octopus GO for all your charging.

I don't see that so much with the higher spec ID3s that don't fall under the grant threshold. The little extra they give in equipment seem to come at a disproportionately high price IMO, some of that is not getting the grant.

[Cherry]

I compare a new ICE to a new EV and my low mileage. Given the EV costs a lot more than an "equivalent" ICE and high cost of a home charger, my low mileage does not make it worth while from a cost point to buy an EV. For high mileage it does.

Yes, I usually buy a new car, use it for 10 years and "throw it away" (except I kept the MX3). I had a 5 year service pack with BMW and have not serviced it for 2 years now due to low mileage. So, by year 10, I need to replace it. I only pay £20 a year vehicle excise duty. My fuel costs are less than £225 a year. There is no financial reason to change (like my 30 year old boiler - every gas man states "no payback"). But, I will move to EV anyway to spend my money! I will see how my wife gets on with her ID.3 when it arrives. I am sure the government will force me to change anyway.

[monkeyhanger]

Are you comparing a new EV to an equivalent new ICE though? You don't seem to be.

Without naming alternative cars, you're inferring that the EVs will cost more.

For me, the closest ICE equivalent is the Golf GTD - the Family ID3 is moderately better equipped as standard vs GTD if you buy the Derry alloys. The Life is moderately worse specced (missing out on dual climate and adaptive headlights). The only thing the GTD has over them is front sports seats.

Power and performance is almost identical between Pro Performance and GTD, they're same size/class of car (although cabin room in ID3 is much better).

Price wise with decent discount (e.g. DTD), there is a few hundred quid in it - when I bought my Family for £28250, the GTD was around £28400 on DTD.

What ICE equivalent to the ID3 would you consider to be significantly cheaper than the ID3?

On the VED front, you are comparing old to new - you would not get £20 VED on any brand new diesel now. There's a showroom CO2 tax on new ICE cars and then they pay a standard (£160 currently, I think) amount, or £475 luxury VED a year for 6 years if the RRP is over £40k (regardless of how much you actually paid for it new or used).

It might take you more than a year to get a home charger to pay for itself on your own mileage, but you should put a price on convenience too - rolling up at Tesco and hoping that all the chargers aren't taken when you arrive and have to kill an hour to get 25 miles charge on, faffing with your own cable etc. Or you go out of your way to a fast charger for 45 mins 20% to 80% at £15 instead of £1.80at home.

You're getting your wife an EV and she does 6k miles a year. Even for her, the home charger would shortly pay for itself and not inconvenience her:

6k miles per annum at probably realistic 40mpg average = 150 Gallons per year. Current price of a gallon of petrol/diesel is around £.6.30. Annual diesel spend = £945 pa. On Octopus GO you'd be paying £86 based on 6000 miles at 5p per kWh overnight and an easily achievable 3.5 miles per kWh. Even averaging 60mpg on those 6k miles, that charger will just about be paid for in year 1 on your wife's miles.

[Cherry]

I purchased Family Pro (wife wanted the glass roof). What is the equivalent VW ICE? Is there one?
May be compare the ID.3 Life to a Golf Life? Which battery size and engine do we compare?
Do we have to add alloys to the ID3 given they are standard on the Golf?
What about more expensive models? Should be consider the government grants?
If there is no grant, what is the extra cost? £6k minimum. Average fuel is £1,000 per year for £8k miles. so c.7 years for pay back just for fuel.

Your price is not available. You got a great deal because of a grant reduction .
DTD have just increased their price for ID.3.

Of all the cars I think ID.3 is closer to equivalent ICE cars from the same manufacturer.

Make it easier and compare e-Niro 2 to Niro (grant available).
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back?

How about comparing the new BMW i4 to ICE equivalent? There is no government grant here.
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back time?

Zero excise duty for EV will not last. How will roads be funded?
EV are expensive. Why give grants to people who can afford a new EV?
Give grants to take older cars off the road instead.
Freebies for the rich and hammer the poor! I will take the £2,500, thanks (but, I think it is wrong).

[rikimaru]

I purchased Family Pro (wife wanted the glass roof). What is the equivalent VW ICE? Is there one?
May be compare the ID.3 Life to a Golf Life? Which battery size and engine do we compare?
Do we have to add alloys to the ID3 given they are standard on the Golf?
What about more expensive models? Should be consider the government grants?
If there is no grant, what is the extra cost? £6k minimum. Average fuel is £1,000 per year for £8k miles. so c.7 years for pay back just for fuel.

Your price is not available. You got a great deal because of a grant reduction .
DTD have just increased their price for ID.3.

Of all the cars I think ID.3 is closer to equivalent ICE cars from the same manufacturer.

Make it easier and compare e-Niro 2 to Niro (grant available).
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back?

How about comparing the new BMW i4 to ICE equivalent? There is no government grant here.
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back time?

Zero excise duty for EV will not last. How will roads be funded?
EV are expensive. Why give grants to people who can afford a new EV?
Give grants to take older cars off the road instead.
Freebies for the rich and hammer the poor! I will take the £2,500, thanks (but, I think it is wrong).

Why is your point exactly? They’re saying it probably works out cheaper and more convenient for you to install a home charger. Nothing about how things will play out in the long run (yes, subsidies will end but EVs will get cheaper too as the tech matures).

[Utumno]

I hear you on lockdown miles!

When I was running costs for ICE vs BEV the thing that made the cost savings really eye opening were the mileage, because it’s multiplicative. I typically do 12,000 miles a year on average and that was about £2100 a year in dinosaur juice. 12,000 miles on Octopus Go is so hopelessly cheap that it made the cost of a home charger a no-brainer

For high mileage EV is worth it. For low mileage, it really is not. But it is not all about money, (but I still want the best discount ) so my wife can have an EV first (she does 6k miles) and I may follow soon after.

National average miles for an average household in the UK is ~12,000 miles (pandemic notwithstanding)

At 12,000 miles pa with home charging and a good EV tariff the fuel savings are huge - thousands of pounds a year.

Low mileages like yours, I agree much less so.

[monkeyhanger]

I purchased Family Pro (wife wanted the glass roof). What is the equivalent VW ICE? Is there one?
May be compare the ID.3 Life to a Golf Life? Which battery size and engine do we compare?
Do we have to add alloys to the ID3 given they are standard on the Golf?
What about more expensive models? Should be consider the government grants?
If there is no grant, what is the extra cost? £6k minimum. Average fuel is £1,000 per year for £8k miles. so c.7 years for pay back just for fuel.

Your price is not available. You got a great deal because of a grant reduction .
DTD have just increased their price for ID.3.

Of all the cars I think ID.3 is closer to equivalent ICE cars from the same manufacturer.

Make it easier and compare e-Niro 2 to Niro (grant available).
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back?

How about comparing the new BMW i4 to ICE equivalent? There is no government grant here.
What is the price differential in cars? What is the pay back time?

Zero excise duty for EV will not last. How will roads be funded?
EV are expensive. Why give grants to people who can afford a new EV?
Give grants to take older cars off the road instead.
Freebies for the rich and hammer the poor! I will take the £2,500, thanks (but, I think it is wrong).

I've already made it clear what I consider the nearest ICE equivalent is to an ID3 Pro-performance - the Golf GTD, in both performance and equipment levels. The achievable price differential between the 2 is coppers after all incentives are accounted for. The Golf Life is significantly less well equipped than the ID3 Life and has access to much less powerful engines.

You're chosing to ignore the justified comparison I made even though it demonstrates marginal price differences between them. I included the purchase of 18" Derrys on the ID3 in the price compared with Golf GTD that already has them. On that basis I think it's pretty much the fairest comparison out there to demonstrate a lack of cost gap between ICE and EV for equivalent cars.

There's also the potential to save significantly on the fuel bill. If you have the facilities to do so and choose not to buy a home charger that could save £900 a year on your wife's mileage vs a 40mpg average petrol/diesel then you're really cutting your nose off to spite your face. It would go a long way to subsidise the cost of an EV.

On the basis of the above, I don't consider the ID3 in Life/Family guise to be more expensive than the ICE equivalent (Golf GTD).

If you want to compare a 204ps IDE Life to a 1.0 115ps Golf Life because they share the Word "Life" in their description, you know that's not right.

Getting people to trade in their 10 year old car that they bought at 6 years old for a third of new RRP is always going to be a big ask. Getting someone to pay £28k instead of £10k for their next car isn't going to happen for most, unless you start giving out £15k grants - that's just not going to happen. The people buying older cars will just have to wait for a 6 year old ID3 or e-Niro. As ageing stock filters through, there will be EVs for all budgets in future.

You can't give grants to people buying old EVs if there are no old EVs to buy right now (save for MK1 Leafs with woeful range). Why should a single car get grants applied St multiple stages of its life? Applying when new is the best timing for giving a grant, when it would be at its most expensive.

It does sound like you're begrudging the purchase of this Family for the wife and its way beyond what you'd normally pay for a car. If that's the case then you are comparing apples with oranges and calling oranges significantly more expensive.

Yes the £0 VED won't last (new EVs will be liable to VED from 2025, existing ones won't pay it). Not sure what your point is there though. £20 VED for cars like the one you currently own ceased in 2017 for new ones. The Government incentivised people into diesels (due to lower CO2) with low/no VED from around 2012 to 2017 (my 2013 Golf GTD attracted £20 VED, the wife's 2015 A1 1.6TDI had £0 VED), and now the government is tempting us into EVs with similar incentives. Grab them while you can.

[monkeyhanger]

National average miles for an average driver in the UK is 12,000 miles (pandemic notwithstanding)

At 12,000 miles pa with home charging and a good EV tariff the fuel savings are huge - thousands of pounds a year.

Low mileages like yours, I agree much less so.

At mileages like his wife will be doing (6k miles pa) a charger will pay for itself in less than a year. Even at his tiny 2k miles pa, a home charger wi pay for itself in less than 3 years, not to mention being massively more convenient. Even on a 3 year payback I'd buy the charger. 15 year payback on solar panels for my roof? Not so much.

That charger is a long term investment - we'll all be buying EVs for the forseeable from 2030, and most people in EVs now will profess to never going back to ICE. These chargers aren't rigged to blow at 3 years, chances are, most people will get 10+ years out of them.

Even at low miles if you have off-street parking and the ability to fit a charger, and can access an Octopus GO style tariff, buying a charger doesn't take a ridiculous period of time to be cost effective.

[Utumno]

Can’t argue with any of that!

Although I’m sure Cherry will

[Cherry]

I've already made it clear what I consider the nearest ICE equivalent is to an ID3 Pro-performance - the Golf GTD, in both performance and equipment levels. The achievable price differential between the 2 is coppers after all incentives are accounted for. The Golf Life is significantly less well equipped than the ID3 Life and has access to much less powerful engines.

You're chosing to ignore the justified comparison I made even though it demonstrates marginal price differences between them. I included the purchase of 18" Derrys on the ID3 in the price compared with Golf GTD that already has them. On that basis I think it's pretty much the fairest comparison out there to demonstrate a lack of cost gap between ICE and EV for equivalent cars.

There's also the potential to save significantly on the fuel bill. If you have the facilities to do so and choose not to buy a home charger that could save £900 a year on your wife's mileage vs a 40mpg average petrol/diesel then you're really cutting your nose off to spite your face. It would go a long way to subsidise the cost of an EV.

On the basis of the above, I don't consider the ID3 in Life/Family guise to be more expensive than the ICE equivalent (Golf GTD).

If you want to compare a 204ps IDE Life to a 1.0 115ps Golf Life because they share the Word "Life" in their description, you know that's not right.

Getting people to trade in their 10 year old car that they bought at 6 years old for a third of new RRP is always going to be a big ask. Getting someone to pay £28k instead of £10k for their next car isn't going to happen for most, unless you start giving out £15k grants - that's just not going to happen. The people buying older cars will just have to wait for a 6 year old ID3 or e-Niro. As ageing stock filters through, there will be EVs for all budgets in future.

You can't give grants to people buying old EVs if there are no old EVs to buy right now (save for MK1 Leafs with woeful range). Why should a single car get grants applied St multiple stages of its life? Applying when new is the best timing for giving a grant, when it would be at its most expensive.

It does sound like you're begrudging the purchase of this Family for the wife and its way beyond what you'd normally pay for a car. If that's the case then you are comparing apples with oranges and calling oranges significantly more expensive.

Yes the £0 VED won't last (new EVs will be liable to VED from 2025, existing ones won't pay it). Not sure what your point is there though. £20 VED for cars like the one you currently own ceased in 2017 for new ones. The Government incentivised people into diesels (due to lower CO2) with low/no VED from around 2012 to 2017 (my 2013 Golf GTD attracted £20 VED, the wife's 2015 A1 1.6TDI had £0 VED), and now the government is tempting us into EVs with similar incentives. Grab them while you can.

Wow! I am not begrudged at all. I told her she had to get alloys (steel wheels are horrible) and metallic paint. I think with key-less entry she will lose her keys and the roof may crack by stones, knowing her luck.

There is no need to get personal. You have made false assumptions. My BMW cost far more than the ID3 Family all those years ago and has £7k extras. This is why I keep my cars for 10 years. I spent more than ID3 prices for a car for myself. Luckily, in 8 years all I have changed are brake pads and tyres (I had a basic 5 year service pack). I am looking at the i4. What is the equivalent ICE? Look at the price differences. No grant and no pay-back. I accept that. For me, electric will always be more expensive.

One cannot really compare engines. The range of EV is nowhere near a full tank, so should you consider the 77kw battery or wait to compare a 150kw battery! Why not?

As for mpg, her old Golf DSG Match 1.6 TDi would do over c.64mpg on long journeys and 50mpg in the city, not 40 mpg.
My diesel does 68mpg or 50+ mpg in the city. On a summer's day I have achieved over 70mpg on a 35 mile school run return trip.

I do not agree average mileage is 12k. I believe it is less than 8k. For 8k this is less than £1k fuel a year based on just 50mg diesel at todays high prices. Based on this, if a car costs £4k more, it is over 5 years for fuel payback, ignoring the home charger cost.

This link claims 7,400 miles, pre-covid in 2019 for private cars.
https://www.themoneyedit.com/insurance/ ... -in-the-uk

EV costs on average 14% more (or £116) to insure than ICE.
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trade ... 21-06-2019

I would compare Life -v- Life and not a GTD. I think this is what VW thought when creating a replacement, else they would use different labels. You cannot directly compare specs of an ICE and EV. If you want to do this you need to get a battery size which provides an equivalent range as an ICE tank (150kw). if you consider "powerful engine" then consider range. Electric accelerate quicker. It is different technology. You need to wait for a 150kw battery. It is clearly a pointless comparison. As I said I find the price differential with Golf and ID3 is low (and the £1750 PCP scam makes it so low. But, this is not the same with other manufacturers.

Consider e-Niro (compare with Niro), Zoe (compare with Clio), Leaf and Kona with ICE equivalents. What are the price differences? Please state them. They are not insignificant. As I said, VW may be the lowest.

I would give grants to take old cars off the road to buy newer petrol cars and not provide grants for EV at all.
It is better to have all less polluting petrol/diesel cars than the middle class have EV and the poor stuck with old cars and hit with congestion charge diesel charge and higher excise duty. If you can afford £28k on a car, you can afford an extra £2.5k and do not need a grant. But £2.5k to a low income family is a lot and they could buy a less polluting car and have their old car scrapped. (What, but I am a Tory!) I would have purchased the ID3 even if there was no grant. I await compensation from diesel gate!

I do not believe EV cars are as green as claimed. Lithium mining is not green and mined with dirty diesel. Electricity used to power EV is not often generated green and is merely a transfer of emissions. The production is not green and old cars are scrapped with plenty of life in them meaning unnecessary energy use and emissions in making new EV cars to scrap cars with plenty of life in them.

But, my next car will an EV and I do not expect any payback. It will not be purchased to save money.
My wife will have her ID.3. It seems a good car. I viewed it as a Golf replacement.
But, I am certain I will not have an ID3 as my next car!

[smuj]

Wow; all that to say you won’t be getting an ID3. Not sure why you are on an ID3 forum tho’. Your wife maybe.

[Cherry]

Wow; all that to say you won’t be getting an ID3. Not sure why you are on an ID3 forum tho’. Your wife maybe.

I'm paying for it and recommended it to her. So, I need to know information and this forum was useful.
I'll pay for the charger too! Am I wrong to seek information?

We don't have to live in a bubble and do not all have to think EV save money and ID.3 is purchased to save money, or ID.3 is the best thing since sliced bread.
Alternative views should be able to be expressed. My wife wanted a Golf replacement. ID.3 seemed ideal and the lowest cost EV with a decent range and Golf size.
The Life is a similar spec to her old Match DSG. She opted for Family.

The point I make for very many people EV do not save money at all. Pay back time is years for average mileage and could even be never.

[Utumno]

Please, everyone, stop feeding the troll.

[monkeyhanger]

I don't disagree about green credentials, certainly not at point of manufacture anyway (considering mining for batteries). At point of use, the more you use them, the more they redeem themselves in CO2, although even then it has to be conceded that an average of 40% of our electricity is done through burning fossil fuels. I know I'm not saving the world with my ID3.

I do think that the whole dieselgate litigation is a crock (seems that you're looking to cash in). For me, we're not a bunch of litigation crazy Yanks. No- consumer has been left out of pocket by owning one of the emissions scandal cars. How do you compensate non-losses with litigation?

1. The publication of the issues didn't adversely effect residuals of those cars - I should know, I had 4 VAG TDIs in the period touted by the lawyers on telly, and every one had a healthy p/x or resale price around 15% higher than GFVs.

2. The whole overstatement of green credentials is the reason your car has £20 VED and not £160+. You've benefitted from the issue in that regard.

For me, if you haven't been left out of pocket, there is no litigation. The DVLA has greater claim to sue for loss of VED on falsely low CO2 ratings. Those litigation claims are a variant of ambulance chasing.

Stop-start tech was the biggest fraud here. The government sanctioned an official test cycle that saw 24% of the 11 mins sat doing nothing, and the engine turned off with the tech. That was nowhere near representative of real life. A 50mpg diesel without stop start didn't suddenly become a 65mpg diesel with stop start added in the real world.

I do disagree with your comparing a low powered life Golf to a much more powerful and better equipped ID3 Life. By that logic you can compare a £16k 115ps UP GTI to a £33k 245ps Golf GTI and say they're comparable because they both have a GTI badge.

Battery size vs tank aren't really comparable either. Tanks sizes are generally shrinking in ICE cars. Range is relative to not only size, but performance. My old 2018 Polo GTI+ had a realistic range of 280 miles on a full tank, a 58kWh ID3 has a realistic range of 240 mixed miles In Summer, not a million miles apart. That range isn't exactly inconvenient unlike the first gen Leaf.

EVs dearer to insure than their ICE counterparts? The biggest factors in car insurance premiums attributable to the car itself (all other things being equal, like driver attributes, postcode etc) is safety tech. Things like ACC and driver assistance really push down premiums. For me, when I swapped my MK7 Golf GTD for the R, the premium difference was £8 (both had ACC, and both were about 25% cheaper than the Scirocco 170TDI that preceded the GTD).

Swapping my A4 Avant 40 190TDI with no ACC (£374pa) for my quicker ID3 Life with a whole host of driver aids with ACC? £292. I have had full NCD for about 15 years, so no changes in my credentials recently. Same story with the wife swapping the Polo GTI (which has ACC too) for her ID3 Family - 10% saving. So paying more for insuring an EV is not my experience.

I name no assumptions as to the original purchase price of your BMW. I could assume that it was now over 5 years old from what you said about skipping oil changes etc (nit a good idea, even at low mileage, I would do them myself out of warranty).

Chances are, you'd be pushing the luxury VED threshold on RRP if buying now and copping for £475pa in the process.

The price differential between buying a new car and running it 9 years, risking out of warranty big bills and going through multiple sets of brake pads/discs, tyres, maybe a battery and shocks usually isn't that much cheaper than buying the same car every 3 years and not having to buy all those consumables that will last 3 years and won't last 9 years, plus the potential for a big out of warranty bill. Buying a new car, no matter how it is fuelled, the biggest cost is depreciation.

Buy at a good discount and sell when it's still worth decent money. VWs generally hold their value well. If you can buy at 80-85% of RRP and sell at 3 years old for 55-60% of RRP and you're laughing. You are also never running a car older than 3 years old rather than a 9 year old car with old tech.

My Golf R bought new cost me £230 a month in depreciation (Cost £28k, sold for £17300 after 46 months, it had a 5 year warranty). Thanks to the current bubble in nearly new cars, our Polo GTI+ cost me a staggering £143 a month in depreciation. Given the published GFVs for ID3 and good news generally about EV battery longevity, I expect the ID3 values to hold up well.

You talk about not chucking away cars before they are ready to die, yet advocate swapping older petrols for newer ones (why not diesels?). Diesels were still considered dirty after implementing DPFs due to NOx. So they got Adblue tech to neutralise NOx. Then people realised that all the new direct injection petrol tech checks out particulates too, so they need GPFs. Brake dust is under scrutiny now, and as regen minimise braking, that's a plus for the EV (Ihardly have any brake dust to clean off the wheels when washing the ID3). The ID3 captures it's rear brake dust in the drum brakes. Another plus.

You can't then deny that once on the road, EVs are a lot cleaner (no CO2 at the tailpipe (yes, some at the power station) , no NOx, no fuel particulates, marginal brake lining particulates, much reduced used of oils/greases in lubrication.

For that reason,no government is going to advocate a big subsidy to replace filthy old petrols with still relatively polluting newer petrols. It's not as if new petrol/diesel cars are going for buttons either when a 1.0 Focus or Golf is still over £20k - that's still way to much for Joe Bloggs who buys £5k 8 year old cars, even with a £2500 grant and does pretty much nothing for CO2 targets and particulate pollution.

You seem to have identified the ID3 as a car that does all the stuff and EV should do well, at a more reasonable price than some manufacturers - that's pretty much why I bought a £28k ID3 for me and the missus and not 2 x £28k Golf GTDs (and the fuel savings that go with the ID3)

[Cherry]

"I do think that the whole dieselgate litigation is a crock (seems that you're looking to cash in). For me, we're not a bunch of litigation crazy Yanks. No- consumer has been left out of pocket by owning one of the emissions scandal cars."

Check how many people have had EGR failures since the software update. VW provided a 2 year warranty after the software update, but not a mileage warranty. Low mileage users had failures after the warranty period. VW wanted £1k to fix it. People were better off refusing the software fix. I hope VW have to pay a hefty fine and compensation.
Then worldwide , bar UK. recall regarding mechantronic, accumulator known to leak. VW want £2k to replace once failed. Australian government force VW to fix it.

I will be happy with £3k to £5k! I had to pay £2k to fix privately and 2 recoveries due to dieselgate,

VW reliability: 20th out of 30 in WhatCar survey. I hope ID3 proves reliable!

Compared to BMW I found VW a most unhelpful company to deal with.

What is the predicted ID.3 depreciation after 3 years?

[Cherry]

Please, everyone, stop feeding the troll.

Wow, a troll because I do not agree with your views? Seriously, are you trying to no-platform.
The next thing you will say is I did not order an ID.3.

[Utumno]

Please, everyone, stop feeding the troll.

Wow, a troll because I do not agree with your views? Seriously, are you trying to no-platform.
The next thing you will say is I did not order an ID.3.

[monkeyhanger]

People doing low mileage shouldn't be buying diesels - the DPF will be under frequent regen as it won't get hot enough for long enough to burn the soot generated. Similarly, EGR butterfly valves seize up due to build up of gums and soot deposits that don't get burnt away on frequent short trips.

Software update or not, if you're doing a tiny mileage with a diesel, you are going to have bother with the EGR valve and DPF in the longer term
Modern diesels are crap on short journeys. When my wife had her A1 1.6TDI, she was lucky to get 40mpg on her 7 mile each way commute. When I swapped cars with her and started using it for my 20 mile each way commute, I could drive it like I stole it and still get 65mpg all day.

Petrols moving to DI for marginally better fuel economy are getting coking issues (BMW 1.5 units frequently used in Mini and 1 series being renowned for it) that were previously prevented with port injection washing the backs of the intake valves with fuel vapour.

GPFs are heading the same way as DPF for issues. Our Polo GTI+ had one and when that underwent regen, mpg took a huge dive (far worse than a diesel undergoing regen) - 35mpg ave became 20mpg under regen for a day.

If you want to burn fuel cleanly, with no CO2 or particulates, you need to go Hydrogen.

Mechatronics is a DSG box issue, nothing to do with engine software changes for a dieselgate fix. Those failures happen infrequently on petrols and diesels alike. They usually go in warranty and get sorted. Failures out of warranty are usually on the wet clutch variants and attributed to lack of maintenance (replacement of transmission fluid at interval to prevent the fluid becoming mildly conductive with worn clutch material and frying the mechatronics unit which is immersed in it).
BMW 2.0 diesels from 2006 are renowned for EGR valve parts dropping into the turbo and taking it out, just after warranty, with little to no assistance from BMW.

My Dad has a 2013 Golf GTD DSG and at 145k miles, it hasn't missed a beat. He's had a MK5 and MK4 Golf high performance auto.diesel for typically 180k miles before selling on.

Those out of warranty issues you talk about are pretty rare and most are attributed to poor maintenance (you're neglecting your servicing out of warranty) and low mile usage. You'd be nuts to buy a diesel when only doing 6k miles a year (or even 2k miles a year)., but people do.

Sounds like you've been lucky with your BMW and unlucky with the Golf.

Although I buy outright (taking PCP finance to get the deposit contribution and clearing immediately), I take notice of the GFV (guaranteed future value - at the end of 36 months) as an indicator to residuals. VWFS generally are very cautious with GFVs. The Life/Family is coming in at 50% of RRP before grant is taken into account. So that "£34k".Life has a GFV of about £17k after 3 years (last time I looked), so (under normal circumstances, not this current bubble) I'd expect an easy £18500 px at a VW dealership and around £19-20k selling to the likes of Motorway on average miles. I'd be more than happy to lose £8k-9k over 3 years in depreciation, having saved £3700 in fuel on each of the 2 ID3s we own vs our ICE cars we had previously. Obviously PCP comes at a higher monthly cost than buying upfront (about 1/3 of PCP payments at 6% is interest.

I'm not blind to the fact that EVs aren't perfect (range just getting good/price - not enough old cheap ones available), but in the pursuit of environmental excellence and fuel economy, recent advances in petrol and diesel cars have left them far less reliable than they used to be and far more sensitive to maintenance neglect - especially for low mileage users.

[G43FAN]

WOW, Do you think RS6484 is still iwth us? All I ever really wondered was why they weren't getting a home charger?

[Cherry]

People doing low mileage shouldn't be buying diesels - the DPF will be under frequent regen as it won't get hot enough for long enough to burn the soot generated. Similarly, EGR butterfly valves seize up due to build up of gums and soot deposits that don't get burnt away on frequent short trips.

DSG recall (except UK)
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/volk ... 71053.html
The fault is known by VW - the accumulator cracks. Worldwide recall except UK.

The Golf was doing regular 35 mile school runs (there and back). Over 60mpg.
The dieselgate software fix caused extra work on the EGR and premature failure was reported by many. Many were replaced by the 2 year VW warranty. They omitted to tell users what the update would do. Lower mileage users would see failure after 2 years and VW would tell them to go away. VW have lost the first round in court and I hope they get hammered in the High court. A totally unethical company.

USA: EGR has a 100,000 mile warranty and in UK most EGR failures reported were well before this.

China: DGS has a 10-year warranty and there was worldwide recall on mechatronic, bar UK. As expected the accumulator cracked, oil leak and limp mode. It was a known issue due to poor manufacture and had the wrong oil type at manufacture.

Use a search engine and check what has been going on.
https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dieselgate ... ssions-fix

I too, took a PCP quote for the ID.3 and will cancel finance on the day of collection which now looks like 1st March (I see no point in a Feb delivery).
I would say the 58kw ID.3 is the lowest cost EV with a real world 200 mile+ range which can replace a Golf sized car with similar features (front and rear parking sensors were a must, not just rear as in other cars). Of the manufacturers the price premium of EV to equivalent ICE is the lowest (helped by the PCP scam). But, I still think there is a premium and in my case there is no pay back over an ICE. But, I accept the move is to EV is with us. I also beat DTD prices (after almost giving up). My last call came through. 2 days later DTD increased their prices! The timing was right for an ID.3. Of course the best time was when the grant was reduced. I suspect it will reduced again in April.