Queuing at the petrol stations!

[colonelpurple]

That’s Brexit Britain for you. If you voted for it you deserve everything you are about to receive

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

[jhg]

That’s Brexit Britain for you. If you voted for it you deserve everything you are about to receive

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

Brexit may not be the only factor but of course it is a contributory factor. If not, then better tell the government there's no need to issue those temporary visas to foreign lorry drivers.

[colonelpurple]

That’s Brexit Britain for you. If you voted for it you deserve everything you are about to receive

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

Brexit may not be the only factor but of course it is a contributory factor. If not, then better tell the government there's no need to issue those temporary visas to foreign lorry drivers.

Sorry, I don’t see it as any kind of contributory factor at all, except for helping to cause the problem
IR35 arose from EU inspired/directed legislation
We can just get rid of it now

We could issue visas to drivers from anywhere in the world, doesn’t have to be the EU

[jhg]

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

Brexit may not be the only factor but of course it is a contributory factor. If not, then better tell the government there's no need to issue those temporary visas to foreign lorry drivers.

Sorry, I don’t see it as any kind of contributory factor at all, except for helping to cause the problem
IR35 arose from EU inspired/directed legislation
We can just get rid of it now

We could issue visas to drivers from anywhere in the world, doesn’t have to be the EU

I don't want to get into a discussion on Brexit - that ship has sailed, for better or worse. I'm just pointing out your statement that Brexit is not a contributory factor to the current sitiuation is incorrect. The Road Haulage Association has claimed that the UK has lost 20,000 HGV drivers, who have returned to the EU as a result of Brexit. Yes, of course we could issue visas to drivers from anywhere in the world. However, EU drivers did not previously need to apply for visas to come here.

[smuj]

Brexit may not be the only factor but of course it is a contributory factor. If not, then better tell the government there's no need to issue those temporary visas to foreign lorry drivers.

Sorry, I don’t see it as any kind of contributory factor at all, except for helping to cause the problem
IR35 arose from EU inspired/directed legislation
We can just get rid of it now

We could issue visas to drivers from anywhere in the world, doesn’t have to be the EU

I don't want to get into a discussion on Brexit - that ship has sailed, for better or worse. I'm just pointing out your statement that Brexit is not a contributory factor to the current sitiuation is incorrect. The Road Haulage Association has claimed that the UK has lost 20,000 HGV drivers, who have returned to the EU as a result of Brexit. Yes, of course we could issue visas to drivers from anywhere in the world. However, EU drivers did not previously need to apply for visas to come here.

The loss of lorry drivers has been happening for quite a few years now. It’s not been an attractive job and as older drivers retired hauliers didn’t try to improve pay and working conditions to attract UK drivers. Easy option to employ EU drivers at lower wages. Brexit became a reality over 5 years ago and nothing was done to address the shortfall until now. Not just hauliers but business in general.

[colonelpurple]

The loss of lorry drivers has been happening for quite a few years now. It’s not been an attractive job and as older drivers retired hauliers didn’t try to improve pay and working conditions to attract UK drivers. Easy option to employ EU drivers at lower wages. Brexit became a reality over 5 years ago and nothing was done to address the shortfall until now. Not just hauliers but business in general.

true

its a tough job, and borrowing to buy a lorry is a big burden

IR35 wiped out 15% of their income overnight. For many that was more then the profit margin.

Its amazing how much of our modern life depends on road haulage. People love to hate it, size, eco, etc. , but nothing can replace it for getting bulk goods from infinite point a to point b, and at the efficiency level.

This profession has been a money pot for government with no care or attention as they are not a PC/woke target

Sad, but you reap what you sow ....

[Cherry]

That’s Brexit Britain for you. If you voted for it you deserve everything you are about to receive

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

IR35 should stay unless every worker is to be utilised as self-employed, including the check-out chicks at Tesco.
One man companies "working" for the same company avoiding NI is a farce (especially in I.T). They are not "real" businesses.
They charge £50 an hour and pay themselves £10 an hour and the rest as dividends. But, no I.T. employee would work for £10 an hour. It is a scam.
The client interviews the contractor. The client would not accept the contractor substituting himself from day 1 for the entire contract,
The client wants the person interviewed to do the job.

Keep IR35. Do not allow any business expenses.

Impose a £10k charge for each work permit and 25% overseas employee charge per year to ensure the overseas worker is always more expensive than the UK worker.
Use his money to train UK workers. Never give a path to citizenship to work permit holders (like Middle East).
Introduce world wide taxation for UK citizens. If they do not want to pay they can relinquish UK citizenship and never get it back.
Cut unemployment benefit to force unemployed to do jobs they do not want to do e.g. fruit picking.

[Daveion]

Glad that rant is over and all is well with my ID3.

[Noel]

Of course Brexit is at the root of it. There are no shortages or supply problems in any of the main european countries. In this country there are shortages in nearly every sector, including building supplies and materials in most areas.. Have you been in a supermarket recently?

[gailjon]

Of course Brexit is at the root of it. There are no shortages or supply problems in any of the main european countries. In this country there are shortages in nearly every sector, including building supplies and materials in most areas.. Have you been in a supermarket recently?

That's untrue. There are supply issues across the EU and indeed the world. In the US they have started hoarding toilet rolls again https://www.marketwatch.com/story/costc ... 1632490566.

In China they require an additional 4 million (!) hgv drivers.

[simonmaskell]

Whilst all this is really interesting albeit difficult to verify. I have a question, what has any of it got to do with an ID3, it doesn’t use petrol!

[RollingJ]

Of course Brexit is at the root of it. There are no shortages or supply problems in any of the main european countries. In this country there are shortages in nearly every sector, including building supplies and materials in most areas.. Have you been in a supermarket recently?

That's untrue. There are supply issues across the EU and indeed the world. In the US they have started hoarding toilet rolls again https://www.marketwatch.com/story/costc ... 1632490566.

In China they require an additional 4 million (!) hgv drivers.

It's true that an ageing/retiring HGV population is not being replaced across the world but our reliance on foreign workers and their treatment (real and perceived) since brexit does appear to be an additional factor in these supply chain issues on this island.

[G43FAN]

If only there was some other form of mass transport interlinking the major distribution points around the country? Something that could utilise electric power delivered directly in some places and could move 100s of tones in one go.

[smuj]

If only there was some other form of mass transport interlinking the major distribution points around the country? Something that could utilise electric power delivered directly in some places and could move 100s of tones in one go.

A bloke named Beeching might know.

[Noel]

You are just plain wrong. I have friends in Germany, Portugal and France. They do not have shortages in the supermarkets, they do not have shortages in the builders merchants, they do not have shortages on any of their shelves. Brexit is at the root of our shortages of labour, fruit, bricks ad nauseam.

[Noel]

[colonelpurple]

That’s Brexit Britain for you. If you voted for it you deserve everything you are about to receive

Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it
That is a knee jerk political reaction
This is entirely the fault of IR35 and everyone in contracting knew it was going to happen
The government has to abolish IR35 now

IR35 should stay unless every worker is to be utilised as self-employed, including the check-out chicks at Tesco.
One man companies "working" for the same company avoiding NI is a farce (especially in I.T). They are not "real" businesses.
They charge £50 an hour and pay themselves £10 an hour and the rest as dividends. But, no I.T. employee would work for £10 an hour. It is a scam.
The client interviews the contractor. The client would not accept the contractor substituting himself from day 1 for the entire contract,
The client wants the person interviewed to do the job.

Keep IR35. Do not allow any business expenses.

Impose a £10k charge for each work permit and 25% overseas employee charge per year to ensure the overseas worker is always more expensive than the UK worker.
Use his money to train UK workers. Never give a path to citizenship to work permit holders (like Middle East).
Introduce world wide taxation for UK citizens. If they do not want to pay they can relinquish UK citizenship and never get it back.
Cut unemployment benefit to force unemployed to do jobs they do not want to do e.g. fruit picking.

That’s quite a cruel view and also non-economic

Contractors have no health, life or any other provision from work. When they take a sick day they don’t get paid. Every 3-6 months most have to look for a job again, and go through a full interviewing process for each application.

Further more, major industries rely on project based work. So they only want people during the life of a project. This could be in IT, insurance, banking, manufacturing, etc.

IMHO:
1. Contracting is an essential component for a developed economy to provide economic and effficient project based expertise
2. Due to the risk and the things I highlighted above, contractors deserve to pay less tax. 10%-15% is reasonable
3. Under IR35, contractors now pay 10% MORE then permanent staff, still with no protection

The current situation is unfair and unworkable and will destroy project based contracting in this country and have a permanent effect on the economy and growth.

ABOLISH IR35 NOW!

[Cherry]

That’s quite a cruel view and also non-economic

Contractors have no health, life or any other provision from work. When they take a sick day they don’t get paid. Every 3-6 months most have to look for a job again, and go through a full interviewing process for each application.

Further more, major industries rely on project based work. So they only want people during the life of a project. This could be in IT, insurance, banking, manufacturing, etc.

IMHO:
1. Contracting is an essential component for a developed economy to provide economic and effficient project based expertise
2. Due to the risk and the things I highlighted above, contractors deserve to pay less tax. 10%-15% is reasonable
3. Under IR35, contractors now pay 10% MORE then permanent staff, still with no protection

The current situation is unfair and unworkable and will destroy project based contracting in this country and have a permanent effect on the economy and growth.

ABOLISH IR35 NOW!

It is perfectly economic logic It is not cruel. 10-15% tax is selfish.
Contractors can be on PAYE and paid a higher rate than permanent employees. There is no reason not to give a fixed term contact with benefits.
The I.T. contractor on a £70k salary will want to work as a contractor on £70 an hour and be paid £10 an hour from his Ltd company and take the rest as dividends (him/wife/children etc all on payroll. All other family members furloughed and they never did anything anyway. Nice little scam! - Thanks Rishi).
Some took out a loan. Closed down company and set up a new one for their next contract. Thanks Rishi!
But, the contractor would never work for £10 an hour in the real world. It's a scam and IR35 rightfully wants to stop this and puts the guy on a fixed term contract and pay full tax and NI as they should.

The contractors do not deserve to be paid less tax (only I do!). Their tax bands should be the same as employees on their company charge out rate.
They just deserve to be paid a higher rate.
They may pay 10% more tax as their rates are higher. The tax rates are set by the government. Let them be in the 40% tax band.

Contracting may be essential as is IR35. Pay the full tax on these pretend businesses, else every worker should be given the option of being a contractor, even a check out chick!

Make IR35 stricter now. Make the contractor prove he is a business and if he loses, the penalty should be the retained income.
E.g. if he paid himself £10/hour from a £70 an hour contract then he loses the £60/hour minus Employers NI as a penalty.
After all he agreed to work for £10 an hour!

I bet he would accept he was caught by IR35 and not try the scam,
Only I deserve not to pay any tax!

[colonelpurple]

That’s quite a cruel view and also non-economic

Contractors have no health, life or any other provision from work. When they take a sick day they don’t get paid. Every 3-6 months most have to look for a job again, and go through a full interviewing process for each application.

Further more, major industries rely on project based work. So they only want people during the life of a project. This could be in IT, insurance, banking, manufacturing, etc.

IMHO:
1. Contracting is an essential component for a developed economy to provide economic and effficient project based expertise
2. Due to the risk and the things I highlighted above, contractors deserve to pay less tax. 10%-15% is reasonable
3. Under IR35, contractors now pay 10% MORE then permanent staff, still with no protection

The current situation is unfair and unworkable and will destroy project based contracting in this country and have a permanent effect on the economy and growth.

ABOLISH IR35 NOW!

The contractors do not deserve to be paid less tax (only I do!). Their tax bands should be the same as employees on their company charge out rate.
They just deserve to be paid a higher rate.
They may pay 10% more tax as their rates are higher. The tax rates are set by the government. Let them be in the 40% tax band.

Firstly, I dont think you understand how IR35 works. Non-permanent contracting staff under IR35 pay more then 10% more tax then permanent staff. Its nothing to do with tax rates. Its because they have to pay NIeers as well as NIees, which permanent staff dont. This is completely unjustified and wrong.

Secondly, temporary staff should be compensated with better tax conditions due to the reasons I listed above. Just like workers are on lower income, or domiciled aboard. You might not agree with this, as permanent employers dont really understand the idea of having to find a new job every six months. But as I said, an efficient developed economy needs project based staff. And to facilitate this insecure way of working, needs to provide an incentive. We can get rid of it with spite, but our economy will lag behind other developed economies.

[Cherry]

Firstly, I dont think you understand how IR35 works. Non-permanent contracting staff under IR35 pay more then 10% more tax then permanent staff. Its nothing to do with tax rates. Its because they have to pay NIeers as well as NIees, which permanent staff dont. This is completely unjustified and wrong.

Secondly, temporary staff should be compensated with better tax conditions due to the reasons I listed above. Just like workers are on lower income, or domiciled aboard. You might not agree with this, as permanent employers dont really understand the idea of having to find a new job every six months. But as I said, an efficient developed economy needs project based staff. And to facilitate this insecure way of working, needs to provide an incentive. We can get rid of it with spite, but our economy will lag behind other developed economies.

You think wrong. I made my money from the business. I know how it works and all the scams. Employees cannot pretend to be a company and reduce tax by paying family members or take dividends or claim travel and meals for going to work. Force contractors to be on a fixed term payroll at a slightly higher rate. Do not allow them to claim expenses or declare dividends.