How to stop being a free charging point?

[chrisfs]

Come on people, Cherry is clearly trolling.

Good one though, I did enjoy the discussion.

[Cherry]

Come on people, Cherry is clearly trolling.

Good one though, I did enjoy the discussion.

Excuse me, of course I am not trolling.

It is a real issue. I am surprised others have not encountered this. When more people get EV's it's going to get worse. It is hard to charge family and friends. Selfish people who have both an EV and ICE car use the EV on a journey they know they need to charge and can get it free at the expense of someone else. They then brag how cheap their car is to run. If they are not willing to charge enroute they should not use their EV. I have had 4 people charge all night in 1 month and my energy supplier went bust so am on a even higher tariff! Do I have to factor £500 a year electricity for others?

I have even suggested a solution and wondered if any home chargers have the features that I suggested.
I need to buy a home charger as the grant appears to be on its way out and my wife's ID.3 is unlikely to arrive until March. I don't know what to look for and which features they have. I also learnt about sim card and wifi. I just wonder if there is an ongoing charge for sim cards.

Maybe lamppost charging is a solution. For me, payback time for a home charger may be never, and it is just a convenience others will also exploit.p

[Warminster id]

If you want to stop it say no, if not charge a flat fee 5£ or if they are visiting make them bring some groceries or take you out for a meal
If I were your relatives/ friends I would be embarrassed to ask in the first place even if I was desperate for electrons.

[sausageroll]

It is a real issue. I am surprised others have not encountered this.

Only for you. You appear to be in denial over your control and self-infliction.

When more people get EV's it's going to get worse. It is hard to charge family and friends.

No it isn't. I and others have already told you exactly what to say. This is your problem and yours alone. Say no.

Selfish people who have both an EV and ICE car use the EV on a journey they know they need to charge and can get it free at the expense of someone else. They then brag how cheap their car is to run. If they are not willing to charge enroute they should not use their EV. I have had 4 people charge all night in 1 month and my energy supplier went bust so am on a even higher tariff! Do I have to factor £500 a year electricity for others?

No; you say no.

I have even suggested a solution and wondered if any home chargers have the features that I suggested.
I need to buy a home charger as the grant appears to be on its way out and my wife's ID.3 is unlikely to arrive until March. I don't know what to look for and which features they have. I also learnt about sim card and wifi. I just wonder if there is an ongoing charge for sim cards.

As you've already said, it already happens with granny chargers. I think you need to find some assertiveness, not a super charge point.

Maybe lamppost charging is a solution. For me, payback time for a home charger may be never, and it is just a convenience others will also exploit

Only if you're unable to control your resources.

May I suggest you do away with a kitchen and instead use only takeaways and restaurants. You don't want the problem of people eating for free in your house, right?


In the mean time, don't ask for advice if you're dismissive of basic stuff. It will soon become annoying and people will, quite rightly, get bored of repeating themselves.

[Cherry]

May I suggest you do away with a kitchen and instead use only takeaways and restaurants. You don't want the problem of people eating for free in your house, right?

What an ignorant comment to make, as one would have to order a takeaway and pay for it so they would eat for free (exactly as happened with the unexpected EV charge stop over).

You can suggest what you wish and I am free to ignore you, and you are free not to respond or post.
It is clear I was looking for a charging point software solution and enquiring if there was one on the lines I outlined.

[de g.]

What an ignorant comment to make, as one would have to order a takeaway and pay for it so they would eat for free (exactly as happened with the unexpected EV charge stop over).

You can suggest what you wish and I am free to ignore you, and you are free not to respond or post.
It is clear I was looking for a charging point software solution and enquiring if there was one on the lines I outlined.

The reason it looks suspiciously like trolling is the manner in which you're responding.

As a simple answer: any software solution will be dependent on you, as owner/operator of the charge point, putting those settings in place. Therefore, at some point, you're going to be saying 'no' to people. It's for you to choose between:

1. No, you're not using my electricity;
2. No, you're not having my RFID card; or
3. No, I'm not using my app to let you charge for free.

If you don't want to allow them to use it and won't say no, your only other option is to not have a charge point. In much of the urban UK this is perfectly feasible; I've an open 50kW charger near work and several open 7kW in the area around where I live, so in all honesty a home charger is proving to be a nice-to-have rather than a necessity.

[sausageroll]

May I suggest you do away with a kitchen and instead use only takeaways and restaurants. You don't want the problem of people eating for free in your house, right?

What an ignorant comment to make, as one would have to order a takeaway and pay for it so they would eat for free (exactly as happened with the unexpected EV charge stop over)

I'm not sure whether this is intentionally obtuse, or accidentally, but the process of "wanting something, but having to pay for it elsewhere" is directly comparable to your own issue and desired solution.

You have a resource at home that people are helping themselves to (and you are allowing due to weak will). You want to find a solution whereby people can't do that, and have to buy it themselves.

Charging and ordering takeaway are absolutely identical in that context. You simply have to conceptualise a 'tab' at the takeaway that you pay monthly.

Unless I am mistaken, they are currently granny charging for 'free' anyway, so unless you grow a backbone or remove all sockets in your household, the charging point existence and config is moot.

[monkeyhanger]

As per the general concensus above, just say no.

There's absolutely no shame in making it clear you won't be allowing them to add a sizeable lump to your electricity bill without contributing to it.

If they started delving into your fridge and helping themselves to your unopened groceries to take home as they couldn't be bothered to go shopping and pay for their own, would you have the nerve to say no, or would you start researching locks for fridges?

People helping themselves to large amounts of your electricity at peak periods is going to be expensive - for you. Just say no or agree a charging rate with them and make sure they pay.

[Cherry]

May I suggest you do away with a kitchen and instead use only takeaways and restaurants. You don't want the problem of people eating for free in your house, right?

What an ignorant comment to make, as one would have to order a takeaway and pay for it so they would eat for free (exactly as happened with the unexpected EV charge stop over)

I'm not sure whether this is intentionally obtuse, or accidentally, but the process of "wanting something, but having to pay for it elsewhere" is directly comparable to your own issue and desired solution.

You have a resource at home that people are helping themselves to (and you are allowing due to weak will). You want to find a solution whereby people can't do that, and have to buy it themselves.

Charging and ordering takeaway are absolutely identical in that context. You simply have to conceptualise a 'tab' at the takeaway that you pay monthly.

Unless I am mistaken, they are currently granny charging for 'free' anyway, so unless you grow a backbone or remove all sockets in your household, the charging point existence and config is moot.

Feeding guests is hospitality, not weakness. Expecting free charges is a different level which will increase. Soon every guest will expect a free charge. Making chargers use a card to charge reduces the possibility of a free charge as it perceived as a public pay charger. Asking for the card would be equivalent to asking for money to charge.
Software of this kind would also increase charging points in the UK.

But, the charger issue will not be a moot point when I have a home charger that can charge quicker and incur costs quicker and be more of an incentive to drop in for a charge with 2 hours notice. I wanted to know if any chargers have the features I was suggesting.

[de g.]

Feeding guests is hospitality, not weakness. Expecting free charges is a different level which will increase. Soon every guest will expect a free charge. Making chargers use a card to charge reduces the possibility of a free charge as it perceived as a public pay charger. Asking for the card would be equivalent to asking for money to charge.
Software of this kind would also increase charging points in the UK.

But, the charger issue will not be a moot point when I have a home charger that can charge quicker and incur costs quicker and be more of an incentive to drop in for a charge with 2 hours notice. I wanted to know if any chargers have the features I was suggesting.

Feeding guests is hospitality. People who walk in without being invited aren't guests, and people helping themselves to your stuff (whether food, fuel or accommodation) is not hospitality, it's an imposition. If you aren't prepared to say no, that's on you.

As an aside, I don't know how fast you think your home charger is going to be? A 7kW home charger means they're adding at most about 30 miles per hour of charge and at a typical home tariff they will be saving around £1.40 p/h. With an overnight charge on the cheaper Octopus tariffs that falls to around £0.35 for several hours; anyone staying overnight with me is welcome to that, especially given that my friends and family aren't freeloaders and will generally reciprocate if I stay with them or bring wine or other gifts.

[colonelpurple]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I would tell them that they can't use your charger.
I mean, they might as well use your direct debit details for their electricity providers ?

I dont mind lending mine to friends or neighbours as a once off emergency or hardship case, but thats it

Remember its not just the electricity cost, its the wear and tear on your device and home electricity supply.
Plus presumably they are taking up space on your driveway ?

During the fuel crisis my brother wanted to borrow my car, I said yes but:
1. He pays for the insurance to cover him
2. as a once or twice off its fine, but if he uses it more then this he has to pay:
2a. electricity (or he could borrow my granny charger and charge at his house)
2b. per mile cost based on my car depreciation and PCP mileage cost

I think thats fair. Afterall he is basically not paying for car rental ... and just compensating you for your cost actually

[Deleted User 192]

I would expect payment or a gift, or they're not using it.

[Utumno]

@Rob please make it stop...

[monkeyhanger]

What is the underlying issue here? Do your family members own an EV, but don't have a proper home charger (granny charger only)?

If that's the case, are they always looking to be topped up e.g. if its 40 miles to yours, then want to charge 80 miles worth at yours to be in the same position when they arrive back home?

If you manage to get your proper charger up and running as a pay as you go/RFID concern, they'll just plug their granny charger in (it's free as far as they're concerned).

Clearly from how this thread has dragged on you're not going to tell your urine-extracting family to stop, so you might as well go the whole hog and advertise as an electricity charging station for the neighbours and make up your losses by selling crisps/drinks/chocolate bars at a 250% mark-up like your local Shell garage does.

STOP BEING A MUG AND SAY NO!

[mish]

Wow, the tone of this thread. I guess the guy already left. No need to shout.

[monkeyhanger]

Wow, the tone of this thread. I guess the guy already left. No need to shout.

Try reading the whole thread and not feel like shouting the only logical outcome.

[sausageroll]

Feeding guests is hospitality, not weakness. Expecting free charges is a different level which will increase. Soon every guest will expect a free charge. Making chargers use a card to charge reduces the possibility of a free charge as it perceived as a public pay charger. Asking for the card would be equivalent to asking for money to charge.
Software of this kind would also increase charging points in the UK.

But, the charger issue will not be a moot point when I have a home charger that can charge quicker and incur costs quicker and be more of an incentive to drop in for a charge with 2 hours notice. I wanted to know if any chargers have the features I was suggesting.

Feeding guests is hospitality. People who walk in without being invited aren't guests, and people helping themselves to your stuff (whether food, fuel or accommodation) is not hospitality, it's an imposition. If you aren't prepared to say no, that's on you.

^ this.

Further, to OP...

'Hospitality' is defined as being generous and providing for your guest's needs; that is not limited to food. You are defining a distinction whereby you are describing your house as a 'free charge point', where people drop in to use your electricity. If they are your welcomed guests, you're not being hospitable. If they are not your welcome guests, then you should no more be feeding them as you would be grant them some electricity.

To shine a light on this, most granny chargers would charge at around 2kW, so it'd cost around 50p per hour. I'd suggest that you'd spend more cooking someone a meal and giving them a drink than you would on electric.

The advice would be the same as if someone was coming round to your house for food instead of going to a restaurant; if they are coming around specifically for that purpose, or expecting it - and you feel you're being taken advantage of - then grow a backbone. If these people are your friends/family and you're that neurotic about it, tell them. They should understand.

[chrisfs]

I’ve not seen anything to make me change my mind.

But I’m still enjoying the exchanges. Thanks, Cherry.

[LongMynd]

We as owners of EVs need to set the standard.
If you use someone else's electricity to charge (whether Granny cable or callbox) we should pay for the electricity.
And that does not mean make a half-hearted gesture to pay.
We should have a good idea of how many kWh we have added to our car battery (not yet decided on the best way to do this - any tips?) and ads them what they are paying for electricity.
If they look embarrassed then make something up on their behalf (probably now around 20p).
If they still play hard to get (do I mean 'heard to receive'?) then carry a bundle of £10 with you and just give them one or two as appropriate. If they physically refuse to take them, or give them straight back then you give in and thank them for their generosity.

I think that's how I'm planning to play it.

Charles

[Deleted User 1676]

How much will it cost to charge someone’s car while they visit?

If people are queueing up to charge and are only visiting for a charge, that’s not reasonable.

If you are visiting my house, though, friend or relative, in the same way that I’ll let you top up your phone, you can top up your car. I’ll also make you a cup of tea and feed you if you’re really good.

We’re talking a couple of quid, the cost of a beer. That’s just hospitable.

Flip-side though, if that bothers you, and you don’t want to offer that, then don’t. Tell them no. That has nothing to do with electric car charging, if you struggle to take control of a situation in your own home, that’s on you.