Range declining with cooler temperatures

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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

As I noted in the trip to Italy thread, I did get some phenomenal range figures when it was >35C outside. I am now noting that even with normal city driving the range seems to decline. For example, today I did 51 miles using 17% in city and North Circular traffic, which implies 300 miles battery range. Outdoor temperature 12-15C, and I did get better range figures on the (warmer) return leg (the car stood for about 90 minutes in-between, so would have cooled down)

So, how bad will this get over the winter? What's the expected range on a Tour when we look at 4-5C outside temperatures? 50% of sticker range? More? Less?

What tricks exist to extend range (ours has a heat pump) - for example, does it make sense to turn on the heating for half an hour before starting to drive so that the car (including the battery) has warmed up?

All the best

Andreas
——————
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Tom_1985
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Post by Tom_1985 »

15-20% range loss in colder weather, pre-condition the battery, you’ll be fine
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

I’m also interested to see how others are getting on and what to expect over the winter, we have a tour and have averaged 310 miles in the summer months but have seen a drop to 280 this month.

I’ve not had the heating on much and not on high so I’m nervous when winter hits that the range will drop significantly.

I’m hoping that it will be able to achieve 220 miles on the motorway in the cold dark weather?
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Post by Chris »

Tom_1985 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:17 pm 15-20% range loss in colder weather, pre-condition the battery, you’ll be fine
How do you pre-condition the battery?
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Post by Deleted User 314 »

Last year we experienced the expected drop in range in the cooler days, I think 80% SOC range went from 320 to around 280.


We got into the habit of heating the car when plugged in for a few weeks and it did make a difference but I can’t find my spreadsheet for precision.

To be honest, after a couple of weeks we didn’t bother pre-heating, wasn’t necessary on the trips.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Do you need the extra range of the Tour frequently? I have 58 kw and over 10 months have become much more relaxed about range.
My own tip to myself going into Winter is to enjoy the car and charge more frequently.
I will expect 1mile/kw less than my average Summer consumption of 4.3 miles/kw.
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

I cover around 2000 miles a month and do a 210 mile trip each way typically 2/3 times a month, I only opted for the tour aiming not to stop on the way home after a long day.

We’re lucky that we can charge at destination so it’s on 100% for the return trip.
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Post by Tom_1985 »

Chris, when your on the App, it should give the open to preheat/precondition the battery, it’ll warm the car and the battery module while connected to the charge point, so the car doesn’t have to use its own battery power to warm the battery module
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Chris wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:36 pm I cover around 2000 miles a month and do a 210 mile trip each way typically 2/3 times a month, I only opted for the tour aiming not to stop on the way home after a long day.

We’re lucky that we can charge at destination so it’s on 100% for the return trip.
Thats a trot Chris. Before retirement my commute alone was more than 18k a year. The journey home is important, I know that feeling.
In the worst of weather you can stretch the range by minimising cabin heating. I dont believe the batteries will be additionally heated on a longer run. Im sure you could breeze 210 in a Tour at 100% even on a zero C day with modest speed and heating. I could squeeze that out of my 58kw battery and have in the past at zero C.
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tomstring
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Post by tomstring »

Out of interest do any of you have the optional heat pump? I’ve specced that for mine-whenever I get it!
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Post by Chris »

Tom_1985, thanks I’ve used this feature a few times now but didn’t realise it was pre-conditioning the battery

Daveion, thanks that’s reassuring, I drive at the speed limit and typically have between 23 and 37% remaining when I’ve done the 210 miles which is a massive difference. I know I could slow down a little in the winter if it gets bad but so far 23% spare is the worst.
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Post by Chris »

tomstring wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:24 pm Out of interest do any of you have the optional heat pump? I’ve specced that for mine-whenever I get it!
I don’t have one, mine was a stock car but I’m not sure I’d of added it if I had the choice
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I dont. Threads in the past have been mixed about its additional efficiency but on paper its sound.
From memory I believe the heat exchanger in the heat pump has run around coils that can also transfer heat to the batteries. From a design standpoint the system can heat and cool the cabin and batteries simultaneously in any combination.
Very efficient design.
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Post by hungerdunger »

Two questions about pe-conditioning the battery:

1) Is it known for sure that turning on the heating does actually pre-condition the battery? I can't see anything about it in the manual.

Assuming the answer to 1 is "Yes":

2) If you don't have access to a charger, is it really worth using the battery to pre-condition itself?
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Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

Tom_1985 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:00 pm Chris, when your on the App, it should give the open to preheat/precondition the battery, it’ll warm the car and the battery module while connected to the charge point, so the car doesn’t have to use its own battery power to warm the battery module
This is an interesting thread.
I don't specifically see anything in the app labelled "preheat/precondition". All I see in the IOS app is the ability to turn on the air conditioning. Is this what you meant, or am I missing something?
Our Life has the heat pump, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the winter.
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Post by Tom_1985 »

Hi Scratch, yes that’s what I meant, apologies all, I didn’t make that very clear, if pre-heat the car during the winter, it will also pre-condition the battery module. Most of winter range loss is due to the vehicle using its own battery power to warm the battery module up. By pre-conditioning the car, you take this away. Granted if your doing lots of short journeys this may not be very effective, but if your planning a long trip, or you can plug in at your destination, you shouldn’t see much impact in your winter range
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

hungerdunger wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:49 pm Two questions about pe-conditioning the battery:

1) Is it known for sure that turning on the heating does actually pre-condition the battery? I can't see anything about it in the manual.

Assuming the answer to 1 is "Yes":

2) If you don't have access to a charger, is it really worth using the battery to pre-condition itself?
Re 2 you have no option. The car will heat the battery if it is below a certain temp regardless when you get into the car.
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Tom_1985 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:17 am Hi Scratch, yes that’s what I meant, apologies all, I didn’t make that very clear, if pre-heat the car during the winter, it will also pre-condition the battery module. Most of winter range loss is due to the vehicle using its own battery power to warm the battery module up. By pre-conditioning the car, you take this away. Granted if your doing lots of short journeys this may not be very effective, but if your planning a long trip, or you can plug in at your destination, you shouldn’t see much impact in your winter range
I would've thought that preheating (while plugged in) on shorter journeys would be more beneficial to range than on longer journeys.

On a long journey, battery warming energy requirements as a proportion of the whole journey's requirements will be very small, on a short journey, fairly significant.
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Tom_1985
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Post by Tom_1985 »

Hi monkeyhanger, I suppose what I meant was, if you were going to be doing lots of short journeys, for example, going to tesco, then your mates for a coffee, then to the shops, then to pick the kids up, it wouldn’t be much use, as the battery will cool, and have to reheat numerous times, so would be more of a range impact, whereas on a longer journey, preheating would give you the best possible range as batteries would be optimized. But if you have the ability to plug in on short journey stops, would be the same
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Post by Scratch »

MotMot wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:47 am
hungerdunger wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:49 pm Two questions about pe-conditioning the battery:

1) Is it known for sure that turning on the heating does actually pre-condition the battery? I can't see anything about it in the manual.

Assuming the answer to 1 is "Yes":

2) If you don't have access to a charger, is it really worth using the battery to pre-condition itself?
Re 2 you have no option. The car will heat the battery if it is below a certain temp regardless when you get into the car.
I am being thick today! What do you mean by "regardless when you get in the car"? Does that imply that the batteries will be warmed up even if you have no intention of using the car? i.e. gone on holiday and left the car on the drive.
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