Range declining with cooler temperatures

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Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

Daveion wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:33 am Would that not be the same with an ICE?
You can view the data screen options including "since charge" or charge option for battery state of charge.
Like the previous post I look at the battery level on the instrument display in the same I look at my phone battery level. If I want percentages I look further.
Generally speaking, when I had an ICE, I very rarely, if ever, did I suffer from range anxiety. If it needed fuel, I got fuel, anywhere. BEVs are not at that stage yet.

blenny
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Post by blenny »

With an ICE typically your range is much greater than distance to any garage, and 20% consumption rate differences aren’t so material.

I drive with a map on (usually apple maps so I get some head-up display directions overlay) and don’t want to be digging in to the data screen to see why the prominent miles left is incorrect, which it can be by quite a factor. Eg head somewhere on motorway, visit, head somewhere else on hilly roads and the range forecast will take a long time to be correct to current conditions (about an hour?).
Smitten
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Post by Smitten »

Scratch wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:49 am
Daveion wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:33 am Would that not be the same with an ICE?
You can view the data screen options including "since charge" or charge option for battery state of charge.
Like the previous post I look at the battery level on the instrument display in the same I look at my phone battery level. If I want percentages I look further.
Generally speaking, when I had an ICE, I very rarely, if ever, did I suffer from range anxiety. If it needed fuel, I got fuel, anywhere. BEVs are not at that stage yet.
We are still driving one BEV and once ICE. Its charger anxiety I have, not range anxiety. If I knew, for sure I could top up anywhere, without thinking that would be great. We aren't anywhere near that yet on longer journeys with the BEV. I bet the fuel shortage was an eye opener for quite a few ICE drivers mind. Only a quarter of a tank left and where am I going to full up? 🤔
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Sherlock
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Post by Sherlock »

Smitten wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:46 am
Scratch wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:49 am
Daveion wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:33 am Would that not be the same with an ICE?
You can view the data screen options including "since charge" or charge option for battery state of charge.
Like the previous post I look at the battery level on the instrument display in the same I look at my phone battery level. If I want percentages I look further.
Generally speaking, when I had an ICE, I very rarely, if ever, did I suffer from range anxiety. If it needed fuel, I got fuel, anywhere. BEVs are not at that stage yet.
We are still driving one BEV and once ICE. Its charger anxiety I have, not range anxiety. If I knew, for sure I could top up anywhere, without thinking that would be great. We aren't anywhere near that yet on longer journeys with the BEV. I bet the fuel shortage was an eye opener for quite a few ICE drivers mind. Only a quarter of a tank left and where am I going to full up? 🤔
"Its charger anxiety I have, not range anxiety." - I said exactly this to my son as we drove from Edinburgh to Gatwick earlier this week, and after encountering faulty chargers at Norton Caines, and Warwick South and North services. Ended up having to go 10 miles off the motorway to get a charge.

If there were as many chargers as there are petrol pumps and and you could be as confident they would be working the anxiety would be much much less. (and of course there will be eventually I expect).

Having said that, the drop off in range in cold temperatures with the ID3 is probably the thing I am most disappointed in with the car. This is my first EV so not sure if the ID3 is any worse than others. On the other hand the range I was getting in summer was better than I had expected.
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Post by Smitten »

It's a feature of all EVs but some are better than others. I left home today with 80% battery on the e208 and GOM showing 150 miles! I did 33 miles in London traffic (ave 12mph!) stopping multiple times for customer visits which allowed the car to cool and arrived home with 56% battery and GOM showing 77 miles. You are not alone. Admitted its a bad example of lots of short journeys but today I averaged 2.5 miles/kWh it was 4.1 in 20 degrees C.
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StuartT
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Post by StuartT »

Seeing as this is my first winter with an electric car, I've been looking around for some wise words. EVM seems to be talking sense, to me. That's not to say I haven't picked up tips on here!
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Jonr37
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Post by Jonr37 »

I’m getting around 2.8 miles per kWh at the moment, but also am doing lots of school run short journeys in a hilly area. This feels like the worst case, and i guess when it gets to summer i;ll be nearer 4 miles per kWh - over the 2 years I’ll have the car it should average itself out to somewhere mid 3’s
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

StuartT wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:29 am Seeing as this is my first winter with an electric car, I've been looking around for some wise words. EVM seems to be talking sense, to me. That's not to say I haven't picked up tips on here!
I thought that a good summary of winter running for new owners. Everything presented has been covered seasonally on the forum but its nice to see it all together. The approach to getting stuck in traffic and should you or should you not turn the heater off will be food for thought for many.
You have to have confidence in your own understanding of remainig range and how your journey is in the way it was presented and much of that you can only gain by experience.
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StuartT
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Post by StuartT »

Daveion wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:30 pm

I thought that a good summary of winter running for new owners. Everything presented has been covered seasonally on the forum but its nice to see it all together.
That’s what I was thinking.
It kind of summarised umpteen pages on a website nicely!
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

StuartT wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:29 am Seeing as this is my first winter with an electric car, I've been looking around for some wise words. EVM seems to be talking sense, to me. That's not to say I haven't picked up tips on here!

His comparisons to ICE cars are spot on too, they are easy to forget!
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Post by StuartT »

His comparisons to ICE cars are spot on too, they are easy to forget!
[/quote]


Ain't that the truth
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EVOWNER101
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Post by EVOWNER101 »

The 20% loss mentioned by EVM is reasonably spot on even for my EGolf, which stays outside but is plugged in every night.
I do not have a nice integrated garage like EVM.
Of course max real world miles @100% charge varies depending on how well (badly) I have been driving day to day.
Just like the mpg of my last ICE car a Mini countrymen.
Another matter rarely mentioned by the press either.
Anyway in the early days of EV ownership I did note down daily various things like mileage at both 50% charge and fully charged, miles travelled, type of journey, outside temp, regeneration achieved, etc.
I know sad.
But the difference between average real world summer and winter miles was about that 20% mark at both 50% and fully charge.
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Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

I did watch the EVM video and can't remember if this has been mentioned but what I didn't fully realise before I bought the ID3, is that the brochure quotated max distance was only for marketing purposes and didn't reflect real world driving. (I should have realised, as I know the same lie is told about ICE cars). Also, that 100% charges should be rare, for the health of the battery. So I and I suspect many others, charge day to day, to 80%. So now take the 20% off of the 80% charge and see how far you get. And I read somewhere that not allowing the battery to drop below 20% charge in summer was good practice but that figure should be 40% in cold months. So I reckon that my ID3 (58kWh battery) should cover 167 miles in winter weather. That's to "empty", not allowing for leaving the 40% of charge.
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Scratch wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:26 am I did watch the EVM video and can't remember if this has been mentioned but what I didn't fully realise before I bought the ID3, is that the brochure quotated max distance was only for marketing purposes and didn't reflect real world driving. (I should have realised, as I know the same lie is told about ICE cars). Also, that 100% charges should be rare, for the health of the battery. So I and I suspect many others, charge day to day, to 80%. So now take the 20% off of the 80% charge and see how far you get. And I read somewhere that not allowing the battery to drop below 20% charge in summer was good practice but that figure should be 40% in cold months. So I reckon that my ID3 (58kWh battery) should cover 167 miles in winter weather. That's to "empty", not allowing for leaving the 40% of charge.

If you need the range to charge over 80%, do it.

If you need the range that results in the level dropping below 20%, do it.

But don’t leave the car at very high or very low levels for any length of time.

All car manufacturers quote the WLTP lab test results, whether ICE, BEV, or one of those hybrid thingies.
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Post by Deleted User 314 »

This popped up on my Twitter feed today, apologies if already posted.

https://shaping-mobility.volkswagen.com ... 5674676236
Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

Anduain wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:01 pm This popped up on my Twitter feed today, apologies if already posted.

https://shaping-mobility.volkswagen.com ... 5674676236
Thanks for posting that. Interesting.
Anyone know what this is:

“ Think ahead while driving and use the sail function where possible.”

Sail function???
Where’s the button to release the sail?
mediaguy
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Post by mediaguy »

I thought

"The latest ID. models (from end of 2021) can preheat both the interior and the battery whilst connected to the grid"

was an interesting bit.
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Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

mediaguy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:16 pm I thought :(

"The latest ID. models (from end of 2021) can preheat both the interior and the battery whilst connected to the grid"

was an interesting bit.
Not when you’ve got an earlier version! Just jealous. :(
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

Anduain wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:01 pm This popped up on my Twitter feed today, apologies if already posted.

https://shaping-mobility.volkswagen.com ... 5674676236

Good link 👍
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Post by monkeyhanger »

I already do all that and my range is still hammered! Its all just common sense that i'd expect a lot of us do already, unless you require a Reptilian 25C interior temperature. I heat to 16C only when driving alone. If you dare to brave "LO" (unheated), the difference between 16C and LO when the outside temp is low is not much at all, which demonstrates to me that the power requirement of battery heating is about 4x greater than that of maintaining 16-18C from 2-4C ambient temp.

So much recuperation happens in D mode anyway, the difference between a driver that has an economical driving style in an ID3 and one that doesn't is far smaller than for an ICE car with no regen function.
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