If government grant pulled, will you cancel?

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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Scratch wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:54 am In the present economic climate (disaster), I would suspect that the grant will either be reduced or removed. I did read somewhere a while ago that the UK has the lowest incentive in Europe regarding EVs. Don't know if that is still true?
I have also wondered whether the manufacturer's list price is artificially inflated to compensate for the grant and does not reflect the real, lower, price the car should be. Maybe that is irrelevant now, with the popularity and scarceness of EV cars now.
I'd suspect there's some price inflation going on with the grant in place - it's free monet for them and tge car still looks competitively priced.

This is definitely happening with charging points. Those charging points all look about £350 overpriced . If that grant ended tomorrow, those £950 installations (costing the end user a net £600) would become £600 installations or thereabouts.

When installers are getting pod points/Ohmes etc for about £250 at trade, taking 3 hours to install them and adding about £120 kit for connection (earthing rods, clamps etc) - how do you get to a genuine £950 cost.

A mate of mine got a charger years ago when there was a £1000 grant - they charged £1000 on invoice (effectively free). A few years later the grant dropped to £800 and so did the invoicing cost. A Sparky friend reckoned at the time that if you could buy these basic chargers from CEF they'd cost about £200. Lots of price gouging making full advantage of the grant.
Last edited by monkeyhanger on Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Even though our ID.3 Tour didn't qualify for the grant (list >35k), the dealer still applied it. I could probably sell it used now for more money than list.

All the best

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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

If the government has a grant system for chargers they should authorise each charger and a maximum price for the charger and installation.

The abuse has to stop of just inflating EV charger prices because of a grant. They should remove the grant for chargers.
They should have added it to cars!
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Raxacorico
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Post by Raxacorico »

You may have noticed that several car manufacturers lowered their prices to less than £35k when the grant was reduced!
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shire-dweller
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Post by shire-dweller »

Cherry wrote: Why should a person who can afford to buy a new car get a grant?
 
The climate emergency, of course, lest one forget the Holocene extinction. The grant nudges someone to buy an EV instead of an ICE, despite range anxiety, limited charging infrastructure and higher purchase cost -- for now.
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Post by Cherry »

shire-dweller wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:52 pm
Cherry wrote: Why should a person who can afford to buy a new car get a grant?
 
The climate emergency, of course, lest one forget the Holocene extinction. The grant nudges someone to buy an EV instead of an ICE, despite range anxiety, limited charging infrastructure and higher purchase cost -- for now.
Surely, then it would be better to spend money taking old cars off the road via grants than giving money to buy expensive cars to replace relatively new cars.
Think of the energy used to make the EV car and Lithium mining using diesel. Not very green and comical if you talk about a climate emergency.

If there was a climate emergency then why give money for cars? Make them so expensive that people are forced to use public transport and taxis.
Ban all cars more than 10 years old!
Back to the 1960s when few people had cars!
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Post by andrewparker »

O/T did you used to be on VWROC Monkeyhanger?
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:58 pm
shire-dweller wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:52 pm
Cherry wrote: Why should a person who can afford to buy a new car get a grant?
 
The climate emergency, of course, lest one forget the Holocene extinction. The grant nudges someone to buy an EV instead of an ICE, despite range anxiety, limited charging infrastructure and higher purchase cost -- for now.
Surely, then it would be better to spend money taking old cars off the road via grants than giving money to buy expensive cars to replace relatively new cars.
Think of the energy used to make the EV car and Lithium mining using diesel. Not very green and comical if you talk about a climate emergency.

If there was a climate emergency then why give money for cars? Make them so expensive that people are forced to use public transport and taxis.
Ban all cars more than 10 years old!
Back to the 1960s when few people had cars!
Cars for the rich only? Do you even review what you're about to post, before posting it? I have a32 mile commute each way that would involve 3 buses, or 2 buses and a train, take me over 2 hours each way and cost me about £24 a day. Or I can be in the car for 40 mins each way and use about 80p of off peak electricity.

What would you choose?
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Post by monkeyhanger »

andrewparker wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:14 am O/T did you used to be on VWROC Monkeyhanger?
Yes, I was on there, with my Lapiz/Prets Golf R.
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:05 am
Cars for the rich only? Do you even review what you're about to post, before posting it? I have a32 mile commute each way that would involve 3 buses, or 2 buses and a train, take me over 2 hours each way and cost me about £24 a day. Or I can be in the car for 40 mins each way and use about 80p of off peak electricity.

What would you choose?
Move house. Work from home or change job. Common sense really.
Nobody forces you to live so far.

What would you have done in the 1950s?

What will you do if the government charges you £1 a mile? £64 extra per day!
Will you move closer to work then?

Give everyone a 4000 mile annual allowance and charge them for every additional mile.
e.g. £x per mile up to £8k and then £2x up to 12k, then £3x for up to 15k and then 4x for etc

How many people would then choose to live 32 miles from work then?
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smuj
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Post by smuj »

You don’t seem to live in the real world. Maybe you should go and troll another forum.
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:22 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:05 am
Cars for the rich only? Do you even review what you're about to post, before posting it? I have a32 mile commute each way that would involve 3 buses, or 2 buses and a train, take me over 2 hours each way and cost me about £24 a day. Or I can be in the car for 40 mins each way and use about 80p of off peak electricity.

What would you choose?
Move house. Work from home or change job. Common sense really.
Nobody forces you to live so far.

What would you have done in the 1950s?

What will you do if the government charges you £1 a mile? £64 extra per day!
Will you move closer to work then?

Give everyone a 4000 mile annual allowance and charge them for every additional mile.
e.g. £x per mile up to £8k and then £2x up to 12k, then £3x for up to 15k and then 4x for etc

How many people would then choose to live 32 miles from work then?
There are plenty of people with a lengthy commute. No point in moving because, unlike the 1950s and 60s which you keep referring to, most couples both have full time jobs now, with no breadwinner husband going out to work while the wife stays at home. That is true in my case, and many, if not most working age households.

We're not in the 1950s, so unless something breaks with the fabric of time and sends us back 70 years, I think i'll be fine as I am currently

My wife works 8 miles north of home, I work 32 miles south of home, one of us would be doing more miles while the other does less. We both like our jobs and are in pretty niche sectors. As long as there aren't idiotic suggestions like yours to price everyone that isn't rich off the road being enshrined in law, i'll live and work where I like.
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Post by Bromsgroveuser »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:15 pm
Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:22 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:05 am
Cars for the rich only? Do you even review what you're about to post, before posting it? I have a32 mile commute each way that would involve 3 buses, or 2 buses and a train, take me over 2 hours each way and cost me about £24 a day. Or I can be in the car for 40 mins each way and use about 80p of off peak electricity.

What would you choose?
Move house. Work from home or change job. Common sense really.
Nobody forces you to live so far.

What would you have done in the 1950s?

What will you do if the government charges you £1 a mile? £64 extra per day!
Will you move closer to work then?

Give everyone a 4000 mile annual allowance and charge them for every additional mile.
e.g. £x per mile up to £8k and then £2x up to 12k, then £3x for up to 15k and then 4x for etc

How many people would then choose to live 32 miles from work then?
There are plenty of people with a lengthy commute. No point in moving because, unlike the 1950s and 60s which you keep referring to, most couples both have full time jobs now, with no breadwinner husband going out to work while the wife stays at home. That is true in my case, and many, if not most working age households.

We're not in the 1950s, so unless something breaks with the fabric of time and sends us back 70 years, I think i'll be fine as I am currently

My wife works 8 miles north of home, I work 32 miles south of home, one of us would be doing more miles while the other does less. We both like our jobs and are in pretty niche sectors. As long as there aren't idiotic suggestions like yours to price everyone that isn't rich off the road being enshrined in law, i'll live and work where I like.
Cherry seems to take a delight in winding people up, best ignored and hopefully they will go away
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Post by Cherry »

smuj wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:49 pm You don’t seem to live in the real world. Maybe you should go and troll another forum.
Well, if some people claim there is a climate emergency then may be they should not travel such distances to work.

If there is per mile road use then people may think twice about 64 mile return trips.

It is not right EV users use a road and cause wear and tear and pay no vehicle excise duty.
All users should pay. If this means per mile driven, that is fine.
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Post by Cherry »

Bromsgroveuser wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:22 pm
Cherry seems to take a delight in winding people up, best ignored and hopefully they will go away
Most forums have an ignore button. Try using it if you want to live in a bubble.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:27 am this is why I tried and succeeded in beating DTD prices.
I'll call BS on this statement.

According to your signature, you ordered a Family Pro with metallic paint and Derrys on the 9th of Sept 21 for a lower price than the DTD price, and yet on the 11th of Sept, you were telling me that no one can get near the DTD price any more:-
Cherry wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:07 pm I purchased Family Pro (wife wanted the glass roof). What is the equivalent VW ICE? Is there one?
May be compare the ID.3 Life to a Golf Life? Which battery size and engine do we compare?
Do we have to add alloys to the ID3 given they are standard on the Golf?
What about more expensive models? Should be consider the government grants?
If there is no grant, what is the extra cost? £6k minimum. Average fuel is £1,000 per year for £8k miles. so c.7 years for pay back just for fuel.

Your price is not available. You got a great deal because of a grant reduction .
DTD have just increased their price for ID.3.
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:32 pm
smuj wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:49 pm You don’t seem to live in the real world. Maybe you should go and troll another forum.
Well, if some people claim there is a climate emergency then may be they should not travel such distances to work.

If there is per mile road use then people may think twice about 64 mile return trips.

It is not right EV users use a road and cause wear and tear and pay no vehicle excise duty.
All users should pay. If this means per mile driven, that is fine.

Vehicle Excise Duty has nothing to do with road usage, use or pricing.

Everybody currently pays for road maintenance through general taxation regardless of the vehicle they drive upon those roads.

Facts and intelligence should inform opinion, not belief.
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:32 pm
smuj wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:49 pm You don’t seem to live in the real world. Maybe you should go and troll another forum.
Well, if some people claim there is a climate emergency then may be they should not travel such distances to work.

If there is per mile road use then people may think twice about 64 mile return trips.

It is not right EV users use a road and cause wear and tear and pay no vehicle excise duty.
All users should pay. If this means per mile driven, that is fine.
Feel free to make a voluntary contribution to the Government coffers if you think that your wife is cheating the government out of money by buying an ID3. You could also give back the grant. The government is incentivising early adoption of EVs, in the same way as they previously incentivised buying diesels with cheap VED (you bought one of those). Nothing wrong with taking up the government's offer of free money for doing what they want you to do (buy an EV).
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:41 pm
Feel free to make a voluntary contribution to the Government coffers if you think that your wife is cheating the government out of money by buying an ID3. You could also give back the grant. The government is incentivising early adoption of EVs, in the same way as they previously incentivised buying diesels with cheap VED (you bought one of those). Nothing wrong with taking up the government's offer of free money for doing what they want you to do (buy an EV).
I will take incentives. It does not mean I cannot be honest and say I think it is wrong.
I pay £20 a year for my diesel. I think this is wrong.
Rishi understands it is unsustainable.

Loss of excise duty. Loss of petrol/diesel tax all at the expense of EV.

I think all EV incentives should stop and replaced by increased taxes for petrol and diesel with incentives for the low income families.
I see no point in giving hand outs to the middle class and rich.

Guess what, I also vote Tory, But I can still be honest.

But, it is easy to pretend to be poor so children get bursaries at university as the university think the family is poor.
100% income in to pension does the trick. Some universities gives the student £3k a year and a laptop.
Nice scam! :D

I did fail to do the most important thing a parent can do for their child in education - label them dyslexic.
25% extra time in all exams for life and nobody knows. Even Oxbridge exams! How pathetic is this?
I realised too late rich parents pay a tutor to teach their child how to be labelled dyslexic.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 pm
I'll call BS on this statement.

According to your signature, you ordered a Family Pro with metallic paint and Derrys on the 9th of Sept 21 for a lower price than the DTD price, and yet on the 11th of Sept, you were telling me that no one can get near the DTD price any more:-
You may have read the message late.
I got the deal on my last call and was about to give up. In fact the dealer said no to me.
Later he called back and said his manager said yes, I was shocked. He took a £500 deposit.

If you want to put your money where your mouth is how about a wager?
I will prove my price is lower then DTD (even before their price increase) and you pay me £1000.
I show you the invoice. If I am wrong I pay you £2000? I pay double if I lose.

I am happy to make the bet £500,000. I deposit £500k in an escrow system and you deposit £250k then we meet up. I will leave with your £250k.

Are you game?
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
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24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
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