Home charger cost effective or not?

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:09 pm
Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:11 pm Facts : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sponse.pdf page 17 :
The Government will mandate that smart chargepoints must prompt users to input a charging schedule during first use. In addition, smart chargepoints must be pre-set to offer users a charging schedule that by default prevents EVs from charging at peak times. During first use, the user must be given the opportunity to edit or remove this setting. The user must also be able to remove or edit this default setting at a later date. Peak times will be defined in legislation as 8am to 11am and 4pm to 10pm on weekdays. This time window is consistent both with our internal projections of expected EV demand, and with various external studies of EV charging patterns. It has been chosen as a peak time window common to both workplace and domestic charging settings, both of which are within the scope of this legislation. The legislation will allow chargepoint sellers to adopt an alternative approach if a chargepoint is sold with a demand side response service and if the chargepoint is configured to meet the technical requirements of this service. In this scenario, the default requirement need not be implemented, since the user will be charging their EV in a smart way in line with a DSR service.
So under your clickbait what happens if they do not implement and rely on an alternative approach of a sim to adhere to the rules and then decide to charge for a sim and users refuse to pay? Do they have to disable the the charger as it is not compliant? Surely, a dumb manufacturer can implement a manual user input or would consider this.
Or is the alternative only compliant if the sim is free for life?

I implore you to think about these conditions.

Goodbye Cherry, you've been helped repeatedly and politely, but you're clearly past the point of helping.
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:18 pm I'm amazed that Cherry decided to even buy an ID3, when no one at the dealerships seem to know when to service (some wanting you to bring in after a year or a mileage threshold than the official 2 years/no mileage considerations) or how much a service will be.
May be he got a free service included in the deal?
As you know he does not service cars after the warranty period or service pack is over and never had an issue!
What is there to do in an EV service?

It was one of the cheapest EV with the range. Although, he finds VW a poor company to deal with (and dishonest) and hopes they get slaughtered in the diesel gate legal action.

He will not be using the car. His wife will!

Ohme T&Cs https://www.ohme-ev.com/terms-and-conditions

8.2. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs are included in the price of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered before 1 March 2020 for the lifetime of the Product. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs for 3 years are included in the price of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered on or after 1 March 2020. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs included in the pricing of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered on or after 1 July 2020 will be indicated on the order pages when you placed your order or will be communicated to you by us or an Ohme partner.

8.3. We do not currently charge a fee to download the App or for using the Service.

8.4. We may decide to introduce a fee for downloading the App or using the Service in the future. We will always let you know in advance of any changes in our fees and will give you the opportunity to decide whether you want to continue using the Service.

====
Look at Ohme's accounts at Companies House. Total equity MINUS £2,787,793.
Average number of employees including directors: 12.

Wait until Ohme goes bust and the new owner decides to charge £20 a month and stops sales.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:31 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:18 pm I'm amazed that Cherry decided to even buy an ID3, when no one at the dealerships seem to know when to service (some wanting you to bring in after a year or a mileage threshold than the official 2 years/no mileage considerations) or how much a service will be.
May be he got a free service included in the deal?
As you know he does not service cars after the warranty period or service pack is over and never had an issue!
What is there to do in an EV service?

It was one of the cheapest EV with the range. Although, he finds VW a poor company to deal with (and dishonest) and hopes they get slaughtered in the diesel gate legal action.

He will not be using the car. His wife will!

Ohme T&Cs https://www.ohme-ev.com/terms-and-conditions

8.2. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs are included in the price of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered before 1 March 2020 for the lifetime of the Product. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs for 3 years are included in the price of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered on or after 1 March 2020. Ongoing GSM connectivity costs included in the pricing of any Cable or Wall Charger ordered on or after 1 July 2020 will be indicated on the order pages when you placed your order or will be communicated to you by us or an Ohme partner.

8.3. We do not currently charge a fee to download the App or for using the Service.

8.4. We may decide to introduce a fee for downloading the App or using the Service in the future. We will always let you know in advance of any changes in our fees and will give you the opportunity to decide whether you want to continue using the Service.

====
Look at Ohme's accounts at Companies House. Total equity MINUS £2,787,793.
Average number of employees including directors: 12.

Wait until Ohme goes bust and the new owner decides to charge £20 a month and stops sales.
Do you honestly think that any charger company will charge £20 a month (£240 a year) for connectivity after those 3 years? If they did, i'd use it as a dumb charger or buy something else as the installation for a straight swap would be a breeze for most sparkys.

Standard terms above for non-clairvoyant companies with respect to the possibility of charging.

You can look at plenty of companies and see them officially posting a loss. My employer is a small UK subsidiary of a large Indian company. We officially make loss, yet I stay in employment. Lots of ways to make a loss on paper for tax purposes - just ask Starbucks UK.
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:59 pm Do you honestly think that any charger company will charge £20 a month (£240 a year) for connectivity after those 3 years? If they did, i'd use it as a dumb charger or buy something else as the installation for a straight swap would be a breeze for most sparkys.

Standard terms above for non-clairvoyant companies with respect to the possibility of charging.

You can look at plenty of companies and see them officially posting a loss. My employer is a small UK subsidiary of a large Indian company. We officially make loss, yet I stay in employment. Lots of ways to make a loss on paper for tax purposes - just ask Starbucks UK.
Read the Ohme accounts. It lost substantial money. It did really badly. Not much creative accounting.

Yes, I can imagine a £20 a month charge for an app and sim with maintenance. If no maintenance, no app and no sim strategy. It is revenue generation.

The question is at what cost will you walk away and say no?

Surely a better charger from a customer point is one which allows manual input of off peak times as well as the "smart" sim based features.
If smart is switched off then then the charger is still not dumb.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:44 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:59 pm Do you honestly think that any charger company will charge £20 a month (£240 a year) for connectivity after those 3 years? If they did, i'd use it as a dumb charger or buy something else as the installation for a straight swap would be a breeze for most sparkys.

Standard terms above for non-clairvoyant companies with respect to the possibility of charging.

You can look at plenty of companies and see them officially posting a loss. My employer is a small UK subsidiary of a large Indian company. We officially make loss, yet I stay in employment. Lots of ways to make a loss on paper for tax purposes - just ask Starbucks UK.
Read the Ohme accounts. It lost substantial money. It did really badly. Not much creative accounting.

Yes, I can imagine a £20 a month charge for an app and sim with maintenance. If no maintenance, no app and no sim strategy. It is revenue generation.

The question is at what cost will you walk away and say no?

Surely a better charger from a customer point is one which allows manual input of off peak times as well as the "smart" sim based features.
If smart is switched off then then the charger is still not dumb.
So have you looked into anyone else besides Ohme to qualify them as being on shaky ground? Probably not, seeing as you didn't mention Pod Point (VW's official charging partner in the UK, and maybe beyond). Using the same companies house searches as you did for Ohme, Pod Point haven't filed accounts since 2019 and are currently late. For the 2019 accounts, they turned over about £13m, but made an overall loss of over £6m.

You can manually input peak and off peak times with an Ohme, but you can do your scheduling via the ID3 too.

£20 a month to maintain a service on a unit that would cost £350 to replace with something else is a ludicrous proposition, and you know it.
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:19 pm
Goodbye Cherry, you've been helped repeatedly and politely, but you're clearly past the point of helping.


:lol:

Seconded. I'll stop feeding the troll now, he clearly doesn't need any advice from anyone on here. Seemingly there's no ignore button on this forum. :roll:
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:24 pm
Seconded. I'll stop feeding the troll now, he clearly doesn't need any advice from anyone on here. Seemingly there's no ignore button on this forum. :roll:
Control Panel. Go to the Friends and Foe tab to stay in your bubble.
Not taking my bet?
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:24 pm
Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:19 pm
Goodbye Cherry, you've been helped repeatedly and politely, but you're clearly past the point of helping.


:lol:

Seconded. I'll stop feeding the troll now, he clearly doesn't need any advice from anyone on here. Seemingly there's no ignore button on this forum. :roll:

Nearest is to add Cherry as a “foe” and the forum software will say they’ve posted and hide the text. It’s useless though because it doesn’t stop other folks quoting they’re nonsense, which is then displayed in full in replies.

I’m by nature a helpful chap but some people can’t be helped, particularly when they’re as off their meds as Cherry seems to be today. So I’ll focus on other people instead 😀
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Post by Cherry »

Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:40 pm
Nearest is to add Cherry as a “foe” and the forum software will say they’ve posted and hide the text. It’s useless though because it doesn’t stop other folks quoting they’re nonsense, which is then displayed in full in replies.

I’m by nature a helpful chap but some people can’t be helped, particularly when they’re as off their meds as Cherry seems to be today. So I’ll focus on other people instead 😀
Enjoy being in your bubble where only your view and opinion counts and all other views are wrong.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
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Post by chrisfs »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:24 pm
Enjoy being in your bubble where only your view and opinion counts and all other views are wrong.
Classic!
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Post by Cherry »

The ID. Charger – the Wallbox from Volkswagen coming 2022.

Internet-compatible via WiFi or LAN plus LTE module as standard.
LTE-capable with activation and unlimited data volume included. This ensures optimum communication between the wall box and the We Connect ID. app.

The ID. Charger Pro has a built-in MID electricity meter which ensures transparency, for example between company car drivers and employers.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:24 pm
Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:40 pm
Nearest is to add Cherry as a “foe” and the forum software will say they’ve posted and hide the text. It’s useless though because it doesn’t stop other folks quoting they’re nonsense, which is then displayed in full in replies.

I’m by nature a helpful chap but some people can’t be helped, particularly when they’re as off their meds as Cherry seems to be today. So I’ll focus on other people instead 😀
Enjoy being in your bubble where only your view and opinion counts and all other views are wrong.

I was merely helping other people by explaining the feature calmly and politely and offering my own opinion on its shortcomings.

It didn’t need your passive aggressiveness nor your thinly veiled accusation that anyone wishing to place you on their foe list for their own reasons is somehow less well-informed or open-minded.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:28 am The ID. Charger – the Wallbox from Volkswagen coming 2022.

Internet-compatible via WiFi or LAN plus LTE module as standard.
LTE-capable with activation and unlimited data volume included. This ensures optimum communication between the wall box and the We Connect ID. app.

The ID. Charger Pro has a built-in MID electricity meter which ensures transparency, for example between company car drivers and employers.

Let us know how your order for this gets on.
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Post by Cherry »

Did I say I was ordering it? It is not even available in UK until 2022. No date and no prices available.

In EU:

Basic version costs 399 euros – without installation.
ID.Charger Connect (starting at 599 Euro, with LTE module 799 Euro)
ID.Charger Pro (849 Euro)

However, the prices for the optional installation service are new. Depending on the version, VW subsidiary Elli charges around 1,600 euros for this service (what a joke).
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:26 am Did I say I was ordering it? It is not even available in UK until 2022. No date and no prices available.

In EU:

Basic version costs 399 euros – without installation.
ID.Charger Connect (starting at 599 Euro, with LTE module 799 Euro)
ID.Charger Pro (849 Euro)

However, the prices for the optional installation service are new. Depending on the version, VW subsidiary Elli charges around 1,600 euros for this service (what a joke).

I’m struggling to see the relevance of the info, sorry.

Did you see my earlier suggestion of the openevse solution for the problem you had of not wishing to be reliant on any manufacturer’s unstated future charges? I only ask as it seemed to me to be a good fit for your problem and you haven’t commented again on that solution as far as I can recall.
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Post by Cherry »

Utumno wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:33 am
I’m struggling to see the relevance of the info, sorry.

Did you see my earlier suggestion of the openevse solution for the problem you had of not wishing to be reliant on any manufacturer’s unstated future charges? I only ask as it seemed to me to be a good fit for your problem and you haven’t commented again on that solution as far as I can recall.
No relevance. I am just sharing that VW will have their own wall box in 2022 and indicative prices. Some people may find it useful.
As far as the thread, with VW prices for an installed box, home charging with that may not be cost effective at all, if theirs is chosen.

Yes, relying on VW's app for charging may be a sensible option, if it works. Thanks.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Utumno wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:57 am
Cherry wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:24 pm
Utumno wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:40 pm
Nearest is to add Cherry as a “foe” and the forum software will say they’ve posted and hide the text. It’s useless though because it doesn’t stop other folks quoting they’re nonsense, which is then displayed in full in replies.

I’m by nature a helpful chap but some people can’t be helped, particularly when they’re as off their meds as Cherry seems to be today. So I’ll focus on other people instead 😀
Enjoy being in your bubble where only your view and opinion counts and all other views are wrong.

I was merely helping other people by explaining the feature calmly and politely and offering my own opinion on its shortcomings.

It didn’t need your passive aggressiveness nor your thinly veiled accusation that anyone wishing to place you on their foe list for their own reasons is somehow less well-informed or open-minded.
You just proved your own point by quoting their nonsense! :lol:

He's been Foe'd.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Sorry monkeyhanger! :-)
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Post by G43FAN »

That's 20 minutes I'll never get back.......
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