ID3 advertised range.

[Dolgellau01]

Hi All
This is essentially a message to VW corporate from whom I would like an answer. It would also be interesting to hear from forum members about their experience on this question.
I took delivery of my Brand new unused ID3 ProPerformance Family EV on 2nd November. When I collected the car the indicated range at 99% charge was 222miles. The VW specification for this vehicle states a range of "up to 262" miles. I would like to understand why my brand new ID3 does not start it's life with the advertised range of 262mikes.
I look forward to VW's and forum members comments.

[andrewparker]

Was it a cold day when you picked it up?

[Deleted User 314]

Outside temperature is a major contributor to range. Pre-heating the car has a positive impact on range.

I am sitting right now in an Ionity charger with a warm car (driven 200km) and charging it back up. Range is “near” to summer numbers (179km) on 52% charge.

Weather is the biggest impact to range before you set off, then how you drive impacts it.

I’d not worry about it. We bought ours in the winter so the spring and summer months were like “wow”.

[Jamh2000]

You need to go and look at the concept of ‘WLTP’ range. The advertised range of all electric cars is WLTP, which is an a measurement based on artificial conditions which rarely if ever obtain in the real world.

Not great but that’s the position at the moment - all cars advertise WLTP range. TBH you should know this as an ID3 buyer - it’s basic.

Real world range is hugely dependant on how you drive the car and the conditions outside.

[Utumno]

Perhaps you should address your question to Volkswagen. This isn’t an “official” forum.

What you’ll likely get from people here generally is “yup, sounds about right” based on your original post

Just like an ICE car, where fuel economy varies based on a wide range of factors including weather, all EV’s vary in range and the ID.3 is no different.

Also, technically, 222 miles of range is indeed up to 262 miles of range. The WLTP cycle defines the maximum a manufacturer can claim their “up to” figures, but they should be considered best-case. Just like an ICE vehicle’s WLTP fuel economy figures

[Deleted User 192]

It’s the same as every single BEV made by every other manufacturer.

WLTP is an independent lab test, it just happens to be conducted at 15-23 degrees which is ideal for battery efficiency.

After 13 months with my ID.3, I expect my worst case scenario actual range to be 80% of WLTP in summer and 60% in winter.

Every manufacturer is obliged to publish the WLTP figure, not just for BEVs, but also hybrids and regular ICE vehicles too.

[Daveion]

Hi All
This is essentially a message to VW corporate from whom I would like an answer. It would also be interesting to hear from forum members about their experience on this question.
I took delivery of my Brand new unused ID3 ProPerformance Family EV on 2nd November. When I collected the car the indicated range at 99% charge was 222miles. The VW specification for this vehicle states a range of "up to 262" miles. I would like to understand why my brand new ID3 does not start it's life with the advertised range of 262mikes.
I look forward to VW's and forum members comments.

I can feel your irritation. Did you do any research on EVs before purchasing? What you are seeing is true of every EV on the road and ever made.

[Utumno]

https://ev-database.uk/car/1532/Volkswa ... erformance

[monkeyhanger]

Time will tell for me on cold weather figures, but the mild weather figures (what is the definition of mild? I'm taking that to be 15-18C for what I'm about to quote).

320 miles for city driving in mild weather? No chance - more like 260 miles. Sat on the motorway doing a constant 45mph is probably the only scenario getting 320 miles in mild weather.

Sat on the motorway doing 70mph? More like 210-215 miles. Combined? 230 miles.

[Jimrod]

It’s the same as every single BEV made by every other manufacturer.

*Same as every other car full stop. Look at any car and their WLTP range is well above real world even though they've improved with that newer system. I remember seeing my Volvo S90 2.0 diesel stated as having a 738 mile range, in reality my average was around 450. For some reason people ignore this on ICE cars as well as the fact they also lose range in cold weather.

[Leccy]

Also, the displayed range is the car's estimate (only the percentage charge is fact) coming from recent use and will fluctuate accordingly. Not wishing to sound patronising at all as I used to compare the charge level against the 260 WLTP and not like it if it didn't equate too.

We got ours in the summer and for the first few weeks used it locally and relatively gently. Charging it to 80% equated to 260 easily, but after a 200 mile 70-80mph motorway run it didn't and now in colder temperatures it doesn't either. However, it does go up if temperatures or recent use are more favourable for range. Thursday/Friday last week an 80% charge was showing 180 mile estimated range, yesterday the slightly milder temperatures meant the range is still 180 miles even though 5% of the charge has been used.

[monkeyhanger]

It’s the same as every single BEV made by every other manufacturer.

*Same as every other car full stop. Look at any car and their WLTP range is well above real world even though they've improved with that newer system. I remember seeing my Volvo S90 2.0 diesel stated as having a 738 mile range, in reality my average was around 450. For some reason people ignore this on ICE cars as well as the fact they also lose range in cold weather.

I always used to find the NEDC (pre-WLTP) combined figure to be pretty accurate before stop-start tech came in and totally skewed the figures (because 26% of the 11 minute test cycle was at a standstill). Prior to stop-start, if the official figures for my Scirocco 170TDI were 53mpg, I could easily beat it with mixed driving,

Claimed 738 mile range on S90 2.0 diesel and reality being 450 miles? I'm presuming you had an 11 gallon tank and a claimed 67mpg? 450 miles seems very ow unless your 450 miles was made up of lots of short journeys? My 2013 Golf GTD used to claim 65 mpg and used to be quite capable of getting 59mpg while doing 80mph on the motorway. Its all relative to what you're doing with the car - my wife had an A1 1.6TDI. When she used to drive it 8 miles each way, she was lucky to hit 40mpg. When I drive it 20 miles each way and caned it all the way, I used to get 65mpg and the DPF stayed clear.

It would seem that range/efficiency drop on an EV in the Winter is heavier than any ICE car.

Petrols warm up very quickly (operating temp in maybe 3 miles) and all that excess heat wasted can be used to heat the cabin. The extra lighting has a minor hit. Most petrol cars lose 2-5% efficiency in the Winter.

Diesels take a bit longer to heat up, but once warm, again, they can heat the cabin with no mpg penalty once warm - they take 6-8 miles to get up to operating temp and most will see not more than 10% lost at the pumps in Winter,

Our BEVs have to spend energy on lighting and ventilation heating, and warming up the battery - that's a heavy toll.

[Leccy]

Petrols warm up very quickly (operating temp in maybe 3 miles) and all that excess heat wasted can be used to heat the cabin. The extra lighting has a minor hit. Most petrol cars lose 2-5% efficiency in the Winter.

Do they warm up that fast? Our ICE has an oil temp and well as water, the oil temp takes way more time to get up to operating temp than 3 miles, takes more like 20 minutes. To look after the engine that's when I take the car beyond 3k rpm and enjoy it. Or isn't oil temp a reflection of operating temps for efficiency purposes?

[sidehaas]

I always used to find the NEDC (pre-WLTP) combined figure to be pretty accurate before stop-start tech came in and totally skewed the figures (because 26% of the 11 minute test cycle was at a standstill). Prior to stop-start, if the official figures for my Scirocco 170TDI were 53mpg, I could easily beat it with mixed driving,

That's interesting, I didn't know NEDC had changed to incorporate stop/start. I used to run a 2010 BMW 120d coupe which claimed 53mpg, and I used to get about 50, which I thought was pretty good. For the last four years (until we get our ID3) I've been running a 64 plate Octavia VRS (engine size and performance almost identical to the 120d but bigger car), which claims something ridiculous in the mid 60s mpg combined but in practice I only get 46-47 (I assume this is the same engine as your 2013 GTD but I have never had more than mid 50s mpg even on a long run at 73 mph in cruise control, the gearing may be different as it's better at 50-60 in sixth). Maybe the test changed in between those two cars of mine being tested.

[sidehaas]

Petrols warm up very quickly (operating temp in maybe 3 miles) and all that excess heat wasted can be used to heat the cabin. The extra lighting has a minor hit. Most petrol cars lose 2-5% efficiency in the Winter.

Do they warm up that fast? Our ICE has an oil temp and well as water, the oil temp takes way more time to get up to operating temp than 3 miles, takes more like 20 minutes. To look after the engine that's when I take the car beyond 3k rpm and enjoy it. Or isn't oil temp a reflection of operating temps for efficiency purposes?

My diesel VRS will warm up in 5-6 miles but it depends how high the revs are. Recently I had a period when I was doing a lot of short journeys and I got a dpf warning, after a single long run to clear it I then started watching the oil temp more closely. Running one gear lower than I normally might, to keep the revs around 1800+, made a big difference and I didn't get any dpf warning recurrence. Obviously you wouldn't want to do this ideally but for a short period I figured it was better than clogging up the filter!

[monkeyhanger]

I always used to find the NEDC (pre-WLTP) combined figure to be pretty accurate before stop-start tech came in and totally skewed the figures (because 26% of the 11 minute test cycle was at a standstill). Prior to stop-start, if the official figures for my Scirocco 170TDI were 53mpg, I could easily beat it with mixed driving,

That's interesting, I didn't know NEDC had changed to incorporate stop/start. I used to run a 2010 BMW 120d coupe which claimed 53mpg, and I used to get about 50, which I thought was pretty good. For the last four years (until we get our ID3) I've been running a 64 plate Octavia VRS (engine size and performance almost identical to the 120d but bigger car), which claims something ridiculous in the mid 60s mpg combined but in practice I only get 46-47 (I assume this is the same engine as your 2013 GTD but I have never had more than mid 50s mpg even on a long run at 73 mph in cruise control, the gearing may be different as it's better at 50-60 in sixth). Maybe the test changed in between those two cars of mine being tested.

I'm betting that the 2010 beemer didn't have stop-start and the 2014 VRS does - hence NEDC cycle figures fairly achievable for the Beemer and not for the VRS.

[monkeyhanger]

Petrols warm up very quickly (operating temp in maybe 3 miles) and all that excess heat wasted can be used to heat the cabin. The extra lighting has a minor hit. Most petrol cars lose 2-5% efficiency in the Winter.

Do they warm up that fast? Our ICE has an oil temp and well as water, the oil temp takes way more time to get up to operating temp than 3 miles, takes more like 20 minutes. To look after the engine that's when I take the car beyond 3k rpm and enjoy it. Or isn't oil temp a reflection of operating temps for efficiency purposes?

My 2018 Polo GTI+ had water up to 90C in 2 miles and oil up to 90C a mile later. Petrols warm up a lot quicker than diesels.

Some people think the efficiency differences between petrols and diesels is down to diesel being far more calorific - it isn't. There's about 8% more chemical energy in diesel than petrol.

Petrol burns relatively cooler than diesel - it combusts under spark at relatively low pressures and temps and a lot of that energy is wasted in the exhaust gases rather than in motion. The diesel needs much higher temps and pressures to self ignite under compression effectively, but more energy is given in motion and less is wasted in the exhaust gas.

Simplest analogy is holding a banger in your hand. Light a banger and have it resting in the palm of your hand - you'll get a scorched palm (Petrol). Hold that same banger in a tight fist and when it goes off your hand will be wrecked (diesel). Same output, less wasted energy.

[MotMot]

My 2011 tdi Golf - used to take a good 30 motorway miles (lets say 20-30 min) before the oil temp was up to 90. Only then did the published/predicted economy figures kick in. Heater could be kicking out nice warm air after a mile or two - but took ages to warm up properly. As others have stated above... 2014 1.6 diesel Volvo was the same... (PSA engine) though quicker than the VW and BMW lumps to get 'operational'...

My old 320d touring used to just get better and better the longer it got into a journey... at the end of a 300 mile non stop trip it was twice as good as it was for the first 20-30 miles...

[beacon39]

Hi Dolgellau, welcome to the Forum. I hope you're not too disappointed with responses to your post regarding range. I'm sure you'll love the car anyway and you'll soon come to terms with its vagaries. There's lots of useful information posted on the Forum by members to help you.

On the question of range, I did manage to achieve over 280 miles (100% equivalent) during the recent mild weather but then I think my driving style is even more economical than ECO Mode.

[sidehaas]

I always used to find the NEDC (pre-WLTP) combined figure to be pretty accurate before stop-start tech came in and totally skewed the figures (because 26% of the 11 minute test cycle was at a standstill). Prior to stop-start, if the official figures for my Scirocco 170TDI were 53mpg, I could easily beat it with mixed driving,

That's interesting, I didn't know NEDC had changed to incorporate stop/start. I used to run a 2010 BMW 120d coupe which claimed 53mpg, and I used to get about 50, which I thought was pretty good. For the last four years (until we get our ID3) I've been running a 64 plate Octavia VRS (engine size and performance almost identical to the 120d but bigger car), which claims something ridiculous in the mid 60s mpg combined but in practice I only get 46-47 (I assume this is the same engine as your 2013 GTD but I have never had more than mid 50s mpg even on a long run at 73 mph in cruise control, the gearing may be different as it's better at 50-60 in sixth). Maybe the test changed in between those two cars of mine being tested.

I'm betting that the 2010 beemer didn't have stop-start and the 2014 VRS does - hence NEDC cycle figures fairly achievable for the Beemer and not for the VRS.

It did actually - it was also used a lot more often. The Octavia's system refuses to operate whenever climate is turned on, requiring my intervention, whereas the beemer automatically turned the aircon down to a low level and stop/started. Off topic though