Price increases.

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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Cherry wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 pm What are the odds the Pro version will be discontinued soon given the price difference between Family Pro and Family Pro Performance is just £470 from Dec 1st? This is a big increase for the Pro.

List prices from DrivetheDeal as published today for 1st Dec 2021:

107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £31,805
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,125
Difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,525
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,995
Difference £470 ---> Why now have a 107KW version?


Life Pro to Family Pro difference: £2,720
Life Pro Performance to Family Pro Performance difference: £1,870


150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £38,615

These figures do not make a lot of sense!
It makes a lot of sense for a retailer.

What they (and others) have created is 'budget creep'.

Oh look at that well-priced FROM number. Ah, doesn't have the full horsepower. Well worth paying £1300 for it to be much faster...

What's that Mr Salesman? If I pay just £1400 more, I get lots of extra spec? Bargain. Oh, it's the lower power. That won't do. What, £470 for the upper power? Don't mind if I do.


Small bitesized increments in price mean the customer has just paid 10% more than they planned to, but won't realise it as much as a £3k jump would be in one. The small nibble from Pro to Pro Performance is a carrot. Doesn't affect VW in the slightest - just a bit of text on a website - to offer the 'Pro', as it isn't as technical in production as ICE would be (what with perhaps different camtrain, ECU, plugs, leads, air box, exhaust and so on being the difference between a boggo and a performance model)

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
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Splash-Man
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Post by Splash-Man »

The ID4 configurator is now working, looks like the brown interior has disappeared as promised. Not sure what other changes were due or prices.
Suppose this should really be on the other thread.....
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
No doubt have the same problematic hiring practices as many other big companies - I expect they have dinosaurs in place pushing back against modern standards, and therefore end up hiring the worst ones out there.

On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

List prices from VW as published today in their configurator
107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £30,935 (vs DTD £31,805)
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £32,255 (vs DTD £33,125)
VW price difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,655 (vs DTD £34,525)
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,975 (vs DTD £34,995)
Difference £1,320

150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £37,745 (vs DTD £38,615)
While it's entirely likely the VW configurator hasn't got the 1-Dec prices on there yet, I would be astounded if DTD's pricing turns out to be correct.
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Think that's the same as the current prices? So either no change or they haven't been updated yet.
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astro-L
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Post by astro-L »

Just a small comment here. To be honest, when I buy a car, a super sound system is nowhere in my priorities list. I look for comfort, convenience and facilities to drive, and the car's efficiency. I am most unlikely to ever switch on the car's sound system unless I have to wait for someone. Maybe I'm the odd one out?

Lawrence H
Up the jumper
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Post by Up the jumper »

sausageroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
Id3 Family Pro 58kwh, moonstone ordered 23/7/21 Picked up 4/3/22
Gloucestershire.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Up the jumper wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pmMy worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.

Well said, but I doubt very much that their safety-critical vehicle OS software team has anything to do with their non-safety-critical webmonkeys. I completely agree that their website is hardly confidence inspiring though, and it’s not like it’s overly difficult to make a reliable website and publishing pipeline (complicated yes, difficult no).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at in terms of the software being inconsistent across vehicles though? Similar defects are being reported for several version numbers, and the interlocked nature of the hardware and software means that it’s difficult to diagnose without access to both. Add that the OS needs to be safety-critical on top and the potential issues can be literally fatal. Nobody ever died from a bad website configurator 😂

That for me is the worry - the dealership network does not have a scooby about hardware and software; they’re module-swappers and factory-resetters. Anything vaguely more complex is going to have to get bucked up the line to master techs, and it’s easy to overwhelm that limited resource. Issues with vehicle OS can be benchmarked reasonably easily, but mapping that back to all the corner cases introduced in real life needs data, and the dealers are the weak link.

If you haven’t already found it, https://cariad.technology/ Is a reasonably good intro to VAG’s ambitions in this area.
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Up the jumper wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pm
sausageroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
I would say it's bizarre to witness a company of that scale with, seemingly, rudimental errors in their processes, but it's not uncommon. I stay away from large entities for that reason (I am also in that field).

I recently went through a few interviews as I fancied a change, and it was shocking just how poor some of the processes are in these places. I've been escaping the hell of workplaces that create their own issues though a lack of real basics - developers who refuse to write maintainable code or unit tests; complete lack of quality gates (in some places, no pull requests, and in almost all, no documented changes that seem to be the minimum for ISO27001). Not uncommon to have basically no way of deploying changes to test them, and some larger companies pass the buck for it all to 'QA' or 'Testers', who are people that don't always understand anything to do with software, and so are a blunt tool in quality.

The configurator is written in React, so considering the size of the company, they would be different business areas - never mind teams, or specialities, so I don't know if it is a yardstick... but, it would seem apparently that they don't have any integration tests for the configurator that act as a gate for deployment.

I did work for a different manufacturer in software and it was an absolute calamity, so there's no such thing as 'worst case' - that's for sure.
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

The online configurator was working fine when I looked earlier today.
Moog
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Post by Moog »

astro-L wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:26 pm Just a small comment here. To be honest, when I buy a car, a super sound system is nowhere in my priorities list. I look for comfort, convenience and facilities to drive, and the car's efficiency. I am most unlikely to ever switch on the car's sound system unless I have to wait for someone. Maybe I'm the odd one out?

Lawrence H
On the otherhand, my 14 & 12-yr-old daughters were rather miffed to find the 1st Ed I hired for a week didn’t have speakers in the rear. We have ordered with infotainment-plus to get a sound system that matches our Golf!
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Looks like they have kept the Family Pro Performance just under the £35k mark at 34,995. With the Pro at 33,995.
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Life Pro starting at £32,200 so only £1,795 between the Life and Family Pro models. Previously it was a £2,655 difference.
Family Pro owner (Sept 22)
andrewparker
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Post by andrewparker »

£39500 for the Max! £42k for the spec I’ve ordered. Feels expensive at that price.
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SunithM
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Post by SunithM »

Same for the Max spec I've ordered too, works out to around £42k as well. Can't see any real differences aside from the interior
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

As suspected DTD have reported incorrect prices. Family Pro is clearly wrong.
The difference between Pro and Pro Performance is dropping as is Life to Family.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
01 March preferred collection
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Chivers
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Post by Chivers »

And I see that after about 5 months VW GB are even catching up with other European countries because they are now offering... RED CARS!

And more interesting seat fabrics!

Maybe they will soon be able to offer a fault diagnosis in less than two weeks to owners in Kent!
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v2.4 in Apr. 2023. . .
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

andrewparker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:32 am £39500 for the Max! £42k for the spec I’ve ordered. Feels expensive at that price.
It is. That's the trouble with the ID3 range - the trims that fit under the grant threshold look far better value than those that don't.

Between the deposit contribution, grant and discount out of the dealership's own margin, I got my Family for about 22% off RRP.

That 22%.was made up of 5% deposit contribution, 7% grant and 10% from the dealer. When you're not getting g a grant or deposit contribution (because it's been pulled), all you've got left is what the dealer is prepared to give you from their margin, which in the current situation of high demand and low supply, is only about 6%.

The Family Spec looks by far the best value in the range right now, due to it being oriced to slot just under the threshold.

IMO, the extras on a max come at too high a price due to losing that grant.
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Chivers wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:13 am Maybe they will soon be able to offer a fault diagnosis in less than two weeks to owners in Kent!
Less VW, more franchised dealers.
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