Price increases.

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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

What are the odds the Pro version will be discontinued soon given the price difference between Family Pro and Family Pro Performance is just £470 from Dec 1st? This is a big increase for the Pro.

List prices from DrivetheDeal as published today for 1st Dec 2021:

107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £31,805
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,125
Difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,525
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,995
Difference £470 ---> Why now have a 107KW version?


Life Pro to Family Pro difference: £2,720
Life Pro Performance to Family Pro Performance difference: £1,870


150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £38,615

These figures do not make a lot of sense!
Last edited by Cherry on Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
01 March preferred collection

DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Have the new prices been released? They do have a decision to make around the two given how close the performance is to the grant cut off. Assume if you get the Family Pro Performance with options then you still currently get the grant. Or does it depend on what the options are?
Family Pro owner (Sept 22)
Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

DickieBoy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:52 pm Have the new prices been released? They do have a decision to make around the two given how close the performance is to the grant cut off. Assume if you get the Family Pro Performance with options then you still currently get the grant. Or does it depend on what the options are?
The prices are on DriveTheDeal, if they are correct. The difference between Life Pro and Life Pro Performance is large, but not Family Pro and Family Pro Performance.
I understand options are not included, it is just the base model list price that has to be no more than £35k. Hence the Family Pro Performance is below this limit to qualify for the EV grant of £2,500.
Last edited by Cherry on Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
01 March preferred collection
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

DickieBoy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:52 pm Have the new prices been released? They do have a decision to make around the two given how close the performance is to the grant cut off. Assume if you get the Family Pro Performance with options then you still currently get the grant. Or does it depend on what the options are?

Options only affect the grant in certain cases, unlike with an ICE car (where the total inc options may tip you over the £40k penalty line). My current understanding is that you could load up any of the ID.3 models with as many options as you like and it won't affect their grant eligibility.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Small aside on the DTD config page; it specifically mentions a 7 speaker sound system, plus a subwoofer on the "Infotainment Pack Plus".

That's new, right ? I didn't think any ID.3 had a factory fit subwoofer at all.

Granted it might be a DTD error!
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Utumno wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:45 pm Small aside on the DTD config page; it specifically mentions a 7 speaker sound system, plus a subwoofer on the "Infotainment Pack Plus".

That's new, right ? I didn't think any ID.3 had a factory fit subwoofer at all.

Granted it might be a DTD error!
Possibly an error on their part, as the update only mentions the ID4 so far

image_2021-11-24_220844.png

DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Utumno wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 pm
DickieBoy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:52 pm Have the new prices been released? They do have a decision to make around the two given how close the performance is to the grant cut off. Assume if you get the Family Pro Performance with options then you still currently get the grant. Or does it depend on what the options are?

Options only affect the grant in certain cases, unlike with an ICE car (where the total inc options may tip you over the £40k penalty line). My current understanding is that you could load up any of the ID.3 models with as many options as you like and it won't affect their grant eligibility.
It does seem a bit strange that they aren't taken into account.
Family Pro owner (Sept 22)
Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

DickieBoy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:26 pm

It does seem a bit strange that they aren't taken into account.
If I were VW I would find a way to make a Family Pro to a Family Pro Performance via an optional add on to allow them to increase the price as they wished and allow a grant to be claimed.

Effectively scrap Family Pro Performance and charge £x for the upgraded horse power to a Family Pro.
9 Sep 21 Ordered ID.3 Family Pro, Stonewashed Blue & East Derry
13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
22 Nov 21 Conf' build wk 49
10 Jan 22 Code 38 Awaiting ship-release (wk48 build)
01 March preferred collection
DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Cherry wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 pm What are the odds the Pro version will be discontinued soon given the price difference between Family Pro and Family Pro Performance is just £470 from Dec 1st? This is a big increase for the Pro.

List prices from DrivetheDeal as published today for 1st Dec 2021:

107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £31,805
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,125
Difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,525
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,995
Difference £470 ---> Why now have a 107KW version?


Life Pro to Family Pro difference: £2,720
Life Pro Performance to Family Pro Performance difference: £1,870


150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £38,615

These figures do not make a lot of sense!
Interesting if correct. £1,320 is the current difference between the Pro and Pro Performance models so they have kept that the same for the Life. As you say they can't do that for the Family. I have just recently ordered a Family Pro. The extra power didn't really appeal but not sure what I would have done if it was only £470 extra.

Just doesn't seem right but guess we will find out soon enough.
Family Pro owner (Sept 22)
DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Cherry wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 pm
DickieBoy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:26 pm

It does seem a bit strange that they aren't taken into account.
If I were VW I would find a way to make a Family Pro to a Family Pro Performance via an optional add on to allow them to increase the price as they wished and allow a grant to be claimed.

Effectively scrap Family Pro Performance and charge £x for the upgraded horse power to a Family Pro.
That's what I was thinking but wonder if that would be allowed. Adding alloy's/changing paint/speakers etc is one thing but changing the cars power seems a jump as an "option".
Family Pro owner (Sept 22)
sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Cherry wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 pm What are the odds the Pro version will be discontinued soon given the price difference between Family Pro and Family Pro Performance is just £470 from Dec 1st? This is a big increase for the Pro.

List prices from DrivetheDeal as published today for 1st Dec 2021:

107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £31,805
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,125
Difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,525
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,995
Difference £470 ---> Why now have a 107KW version?


Life Pro to Family Pro difference: £2,720
Life Pro Performance to Family Pro Performance difference: £1,870


150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £38,615

These figures do not make a lot of sense!
It makes a lot of sense for a retailer.

What they (and others) have created is 'budget creep'.

Oh look at that well-priced FROM number. Ah, doesn't have the full horsepower. Well worth paying £1300 for it to be much faster...

What's that Mr Salesman? If I pay just £1400 more, I get lots of extra spec? Bargain. Oh, it's the lower power. That won't do. What, £470 for the upper power? Don't mind if I do.


Small bitesized increments in price mean the customer has just paid 10% more than they planned to, but won't realise it as much as a £3k jump would be in one. The small nibble from Pro to Pro Performance is a carrot. Doesn't affect VW in the slightest - just a bit of text on a website - to offer the 'Pro', as it isn't as technical in production as ICE would be (what with perhaps different camtrain, ECU, plugs, leads, air box, exhaust and so on being the difference between a boggo and a performance model)
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
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Splash-Man
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Post by Splash-Man »

The ID4 configurator is now working, looks like the brown interior has disappeared as promised. Not sure what other changes were due or prices.
Suppose this should really be on the other thread.....
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
No doubt have the same problematic hiring practices as many other big companies - I expect they have dinosaurs in place pushing back against modern standards, and therefore end up hiring the worst ones out there.

On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

List prices from VW as published today in their configurator
107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £30,935 (vs DTD £31,805)
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £32,255 (vs DTD £33,125)
VW price difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,655 (vs DTD £34,525)
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,975 (vs DTD £34,995)
Difference £1,320

150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £37,745 (vs DTD £38,615)
While it's entirely likely the VW configurator hasn't got the 1-Dec prices on there yet, I would be astounded if DTD's pricing turns out to be correct.
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

Think that's the same as the current prices? So either no change or they haven't been updated yet.
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astro-L
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Post by astro-L »

Just a small comment here. To be honest, when I buy a car, a super sound system is nowhere in my priorities list. I look for comfort, convenience and facilities to drive, and the car's efficiency. I am most unlikely to ever switch on the car's sound system unless I have to wait for someone. Maybe I'm the odd one out?

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Up the jumper
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Post by Up the jumper »

sausageroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
Id3 Family Pro 58kwh, moonstone ordered 23/7/21 Picked up 4/3/22
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Up the jumper wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pmMy worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.

Well said, but I doubt very much that their safety-critical vehicle OS software team has anything to do with their non-safety-critical webmonkeys. I completely agree that their website is hardly confidence inspiring though, and it’s not like it’s overly difficult to make a reliable website and publishing pipeline (complicated yes, difficult no).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at in terms of the software being inconsistent across vehicles though? Similar defects are being reported for several version numbers, and the interlocked nature of the hardware and software means that it’s difficult to diagnose without access to both. Add that the OS needs to be safety-critical on top and the potential issues can be literally fatal. Nobody ever died from a bad website configurator 😂

That for me is the worry - the dealership network does not have a scooby about hardware and software; they’re module-swappers and factory-resetters. Anything vaguely more complex is going to have to get bucked up the line to master techs, and it’s easy to overwhelm that limited resource. Issues with vehicle OS can be benchmarked reasonably easily, but mapping that back to all the corner cases introduced in real life needs data, and the dealers are the weak link.

If you haven’t already found it, https://cariad.technology/ Is a reasonably good intro to VAG’s ambitions in this area.
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sausageroll
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Post by sausageroll »

Up the jumper wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pm
sausageroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
I would say it's bizarre to witness a company of that scale with, seemingly, rudimental errors in their processes, but it's not uncommon. I stay away from large entities for that reason (I am also in that field).

I recently went through a few interviews as I fancied a change, and it was shocking just how poor some of the processes are in these places. I've been escaping the hell of workplaces that create their own issues though a lack of real basics - developers who refuse to write maintainable code or unit tests; complete lack of quality gates (in some places, no pull requests, and in almost all, no documented changes that seem to be the minimum for ISO27001). Not uncommon to have basically no way of deploying changes to test them, and some larger companies pass the buck for it all to 'QA' or 'Testers', who are people that don't always understand anything to do with software, and so are a blunt tool in quality.

The configurator is written in React, so considering the size of the company, they would be different business areas - never mind teams, or specialities, so I don't know if it is a yardstick... but, it would seem apparently that they don't have any integration tests for the configurator that act as a gate for deployment.

I did work for a different manufacturer in software and it was an absolute calamity, so there's no such thing as 'worst case' - that's for sure.
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