Price increases.

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sausageroll
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:01 pm

Post by sausageroll » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:41 pm

Cherry wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 pm
What are the odds the Pro version will be discontinued soon given the price difference between Family Pro and Family Pro Performance is just £470 from Dec 1st? This is a big increase for the Pro.

List prices from DrivetheDeal as published today for 1st Dec 2021:

107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £31,805
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,125
Difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,525
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,995
Difference £470 ---> Why now have a 107KW version?


Life Pro to Family Pro difference: £2,720
Life Pro Performance to Family Pro Performance difference: £1,870


150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £38,615

These figures do not make a lot of sense!
It makes a lot of sense for a retailer.

What they (and others) have created is 'budget creep'.

Oh look at that well-priced FROM number. Ah, doesn't have the full horsepower. Well worth paying £1300 for it to be much faster...

What's that Mr Salesman? If I pay just £1400 more, I get lots of extra spec? Bargain. Oh, it's the lower power. That won't do. What, £470 for the upper power? Don't mind if I do.


Small bitesized increments in price mean the customer has just paid 10% more than they planned to, but won't realise it as much as a £3k jump would be in one. The small nibble from Pro to Pro Performance is a carrot. Doesn't affect VW in the slightest - just a bit of text on a website - to offer the 'Pro', as it isn't as technical in production as ICE would be (what with perhaps different camtrain, ECU, plugs, leads, air box, exhaust and so on being the difference between a boggo and a performance model)

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm

VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
ID.3 Tour 77kWh Pro S 204PS Tour in Manganese Grey (on order)
Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker

Splash-Man
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:02 am

Post by Splash-Man » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:47 pm

The ID4 configurator is now working, looks like the brown interior has disappeared as promised. Not sure what other changes were due or prices.
Suppose this should really be on the other thread.....
58kWh 204 ps Family Pro Performance. Makena Turquios East Derry 18” alloys.

Ordered 26/10/21
Order No. 31517XXX
Awaiting build info
May 2022 delivery from dealer

sausageroll
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:01 pm

Post by sausageroll » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm

Utumno wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm
VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
No doubt have the same problematic hiring practices as many other big companies - I expect they have dinosaurs in place pushing back against modern standards, and therefore end up hiring the worst ones out there.

On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:44 am

List prices from VW as published today in their configurator
107KW Life Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £30,935 (vs DTD £31,805)
150kW Life Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £32,255 (vs DTD £33,125)
VW price difference £ 1,320

107KW Family Pro 58kWh 5dr Auto £33,655 (vs DTD £34,525)
150kW Family Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £34,975 (vs DTD £34,995)
Difference £1,320

150kW Max Pro Performance 58kWh 5dr Auto £37,745 (vs DTD £38,615)
While it's entirely likely the VW configurator hasn't got the 1-Dec prices on there yet, I would be astounded if DTD's pricing turns out to be correct.
ID.3 Tour 77kWh Pro S 204PS Tour in Manganese Grey (on order)
Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker

DickieBoy
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:44 pm

Post by DickieBoy » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:33 pm

Think that's the same as the current prices? So either no change or they haven't been updated yet.
Family Pro
Order Date: 20/11/21
Est Delivery Date: 30/06/22

astro-L
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:40 am

Post by astro-L » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:26 pm

Just a small comment here. To be honest, when I buy a car, a super sound system is nowhere in my priorities list. I look for comfort, convenience and facilities to drive, and the car's efficiency. I am most unlikely to ever switch on the car's sound system unless I have to wait for someone. Maybe I'm the odd one out?

Lawrence H

Up the jumper
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:12 am

Post by Up the jumper » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pm

sausageroll wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm
VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
Id3 Family Pro 58kwh, moonstone ordered 3140xxxx 23/7
Confirmed wk30
Provisional build notified (wk45) wk32
Build confirmed (wk46) wk40
In Production email received 25/10
Build started wk46
Delivery expected Mid Jan
Gloucestershire.

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:16 pm

Up the jumper wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pm
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.

Well said, but I doubt very much that their safety-critical vehicle OS software team has anything to do with their non-safety-critical webmonkeys. I completely agree that their website is hardly confidence inspiring though, and it’s not like it’s overly difficult to make a reliable website and publishing pipeline (complicated yes, difficult no).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at in terms of the software being inconsistent across vehicles though? Similar defects are being reported for several version numbers, and the interlocked nature of the hardware and software means that it’s difficult to diagnose without access to both. Add that the OS needs to be safety-critical on top and the potential issues can be literally fatal. Nobody ever died from a bad website configurator 😂

That for me is the worry - the dealership network does not have a scooby about hardware and software; they’re module-swappers and factory-resetters. Anything vaguely more complex is going to have to get bucked up the line to master techs, and it’s easy to overwhelm that limited resource. Issues with vehicle OS can be benchmarked reasonably easily, but mapping that back to all the corner cases introduced in real life needs data, and the dealers are the weak link.

If you haven’t already found it, https://cariad.technology/ Is a reasonably good intro to VAG’s ambitions in this area.
ID.3 Tour 77kWh Pro S 204PS Tour in Manganese Grey (on order)
Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker

sausageroll
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:01 pm

Post by sausageroll » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:19 pm

Up the jumper wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:15 pm
sausageroll wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Utumno wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 pm
VW UK are so useless.

Screenshot 2021-11-25 at 15.31.18.png

Yes, the ID.3 and ID.4 have got two "configurator" entries. Neither of which work, they are just broken in different ways.

Honestly I'd have sacked every webmonkey in the place by now.
On their careers portal, they claim they do "pair programming" (which IMO is not a great idea, but another story) which means that every mistake has at least double the number of idiots involved that you might have otherwise realised. :D
My worry is more fundental: if the website (a very public manifestation of their software capability) is this poor, what confidence should I place in their car software? I really fail to understand the frequent references in other threads to need for software fixes. As the software is VWs own, why is it not consistent across vehicles? How can it vary? It is not like a pc or phone, where the OS can be impacted by multiple vendors add ons. That to me is a significant (and increasing) concern. And I have 25+ years experience in software development and deployment.
I would say it's bizarre to witness a company of that scale with, seemingly, rudimental errors in their processes, but it's not uncommon. I stay away from large entities for that reason (I am also in that field).

I recently went through a few interviews as I fancied a change, and it was shocking just how poor some of the processes are in these places. I've been escaping the hell of workplaces that create their own issues though a lack of real basics - developers who refuse to write maintainable code or unit tests; complete lack of quality gates (in some places, no pull requests, and in almost all, no documented changes that seem to be the minimum for ISO27001). Not uncommon to have basically no way of deploying changes to test them, and some larger companies pass the buck for it all to 'QA' or 'Testers', who are people that don't always understand anything to do with software, and so are a blunt tool in quality.

The configurator is written in React, so considering the size of the company, they would be different business areas - never mind teams, or specialities, so I don't know if it is a yardstick... but, it would seem apparently that they don't have any integration tests for the configurator that act as a gate for deployment.

I did work for a different manufacturer in software and it was an absolute calamity, so there's no such thing as 'worst case' - that's for sure.

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