Rapid Chargers v Ac charging

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rawws
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Post by rawws »

Read some where that frequent use of rapid chargers is bad for the battery but to what extent ? is it 2% loss over 500k miles or something .

do people actually get out of their way to use slow chargers to conserver the battery and if i was to use rapid 50kw chargin only what is the figures in terms of degradation chargin up to 20% - 80%
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Nobody knows.

Here’s all that VW say: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... ranty.html
StuartT
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Post by StuartT »

rawws wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 pm Read some where that frequent use of rapid chargers is bad for the battery but to what extent ? is it 2% loss over 500k miles or something .

do people actually get out of their way to use slow chargers to conserver the battery and if i was to use rapid 50kw chargin only what is the figures in terms of degradation chargin up to 20% - 80%

There's a YouTube channel called Battery Life, the bloke owns an id.3, and he has a few videos about battery degradation. VW also check his battery for him.
I have no idea why but, I've always told myself that I once heard that it's better to charge batteries slowly. I just do what I'm told! 😁
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

StuartT wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:54 pm
rawws wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 pm Read some where that frequent use of rapid chargers is bad for the battery but to what extent ? is it 2% loss over 500k miles or something .

do people actually get out of their way to use slow chargers to conserver the battery and if i was to use rapid 50kw chargin only what is the figures in terms of degradation chargin up to 20% - 80%

There's a YouTube channel called Battery Life, the bloke owns an id.3, and he has a few videos about battery degradation. VW also check his battery for him.
I have no idea why but, I've always told myself that I once heard that it's better to charge batteries slowly. I just do what I'm told! 😁

The issue is that the strain placed on the battery absorbing high electron rates at a typical rapid generates heat, which degrades the battery. Imagine a mobile phone fast charging rather than slow charging - the faster you charge, the warmer the battery gets.

The kicker is that there's not enough data yet to determine quite how much degradation happens, and I suspect we won't have firm data on that for quite some time. And even then, any real world degradation will vary drastically because some folks will rapid charge more often than others. The moral of the story is really as simple as "make sure you replace your EV just before the motor/traction battery warranty expires", or lease until more data becomes available.

I believe the traction battery is guaranteed for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first and part of that guarantee is that the battery will retain at least 70% of its charge over this period.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

rawws wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 pm Read some where that frequent use of rapid chargers is bad for the battery but to what extent ? is it 2% loss over 500k miles or something .

do people actually get out of their way to use slow chargers to conserver the battery and if i was to use rapid 50kw chargin only what is the figures in terms of degradation chargin up to 20% - 80%
2% loss over half a million miles? Wouldn't that be great? Way off with projected expectations.

I'd imagine that right now, fot the early adopters, as we all are, the vast majority of us are home charging for all but the occasional long drives.

If VW are warranting for 70% remaining charge at 8 years/100k miles, they'll be sure through accelerated testing usage and simulations that almost no-one will be needing to use that warranty under even worst case use - the full 100k miles used under 100% rapid charging under max charging speeds.

The ID3 has thermal battery management, buffers to make sure you don't overcharge or fully discharge the battery.

For myself, with 90% of my miles done on home charging, I'm hoping that at 8 years old and probably 60k miles on the clock (If I kept it that long), I'd be seeing 85% minimum of original capacity.

DC or AC? Makes no odds to the car. Domestic power is AC, so the car takes the AC in and converts it to DC for filling the battery. The only variable here then is the speed at which that DC supply fills the battery and how warm the battery gets in the process. ID3s own thermal management throttles back charging speed to prevent overheating.

The only thing I'm not doing as per recommendations is charging at 40% remaining charge. I'm taking it down to 20%, otherwise the car would need to be on charge almost every day with the hammered winter range - and we have 2 ID3s to charge.

Doubt I'll keep either ID3 more than 4 years, but battery condition even at 4 years will probably be quantified and used to determine price in the used market.
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rawws
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Post by rawws »

Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
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Post by Jimmyinit »

rawws wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
You will probably find that most of us who are waiting for our cars will still be waiting for our car and VW will still be saying "Semi-conductor shortages are the reason why" :lol:
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Splitty
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Post by Splitty »

rawws wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
Not sure you can bank on lower EV prices, the cost of raw materials continues to rise (Steel, Vegan Leather (plastic) etc) and a core component all current models use - Lithium.

Screenshot 2021-12-03 at 08.41.32.png

Unless some of the newer battery materials come to fruition like Sodium then we might well be paying higher prices all round. Subsidies will be over by then and VW already raised prices. But let's hope volume will drive down prices....
MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

rawws wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
I think EV switching will be 'quicker' and at a higher frequency as the market is still very new. Quite big changes are made every year in the size/model/capacity/features of new EV's. Not just the battery tech/range - charging rates, even model size (as EV's don't cover all categories at the moment) etc.. etc.. Given VW's slightly stingy 3 year warranty on everything other than the battery - I'm planning to change before then.
rawws
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Post by rawws »

MotMot wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:51 am
rawws wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
I think EV switching will be 'quicker' and at a higher frequency as the market is still very new. Quite big changes are made every year in the size/model/capacity/features of new EV's. Not just the battery tech/range - charging rates, even model size (as EV's don't cover all categories at the moment) etc.. etc.. Given VW's slightly stingy 3 year warranty on everything other than the battery - I'm planning to change before then.
Agree i think 3 year mark might be time to change to another not just due to battery but due to newer EVs likely to have longer range better tech etc. the vw infotainment compared to a tesla or polestar is light years behind , i got id3 ev as it was the best bang for the buck of all evs mid 2021 for the range and size. and i think more competition is coming. over the next couple of years or so.
Still love the id3 though for what it is
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Sherlock
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Post by Sherlock »

rawws wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:24 pm
MotMot wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:51 am
rawws wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm Ok, yeah I think I will be switching EVs more that I did ice cars due to the battery uncertainty.So I don't think I will have the id3 for more than 4 years will probably switch to another brand new EV by then there should be more competitive selection makes etc than today.
I think EV switching will be 'quicker' and at a higher frequency as the market is still very new. Quite big changes are made every year in the size/model/capacity/features of new EV's. Not just the battery tech/range - charging rates, even model size (as EV's don't cover all categories at the moment) etc.. etc.. Given VW's slightly stingy 3 year warranty on everything other than the battery - I'm planning to change before then.
Agree i think 3 year mark might be time to change to another not just due to battery but due to newer EVs likely to have longer range better tech etc. the vw infotainment compared to a tesla or polestar is light years behind , i got id3 ev as it was the best bang for the buck of all evs mid 2021 for the range and size. and i think more competition is coming. over the next couple of years or so.
Still love the id3 though for what it is
I agree - I have my ID3 on a 3 year lease for exactly these reasons.
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