Dwindling battery!

Lesley Judith · Post by **Lesley Judith** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:44 pm

I bought my id3 6 months ago when (fully charged) it had 260 miles. I know it likes to only be charged to 80% but when I am travelling up the motorway etc I have charged it to 100%. But the maximum I get now is 200 miles!

I can’t be the only one this has happened to! Any advice? What should I do if it goes on dwindling?

Utumno · Post by **Utumno** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:50 pm

The reduction in range is due to the time of year. It’s colder overall, so the car will do fewer miles from the same sized battery.

It’s nothing to worry about and the maximum of 200 miles is pretty reasonable. Range will go up as the ambient temperatures rise coming out of winter.

Daveion · Post by **Daveion** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:52 pm

Its not the battery dwindling. You are still using the total kW capacity of the battery but with lower ambient temperatures some of the kW capacity is being used to heat the batteries and to heat the cabin. That is why the estimated range reduces.
Its not just an ID3 thing its true of all BEVs.

Lester · Post by **Lester** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:56 pm

Lesley

Battery range will tend to decrease in colder weather. (It's the same with my electric bike battery). It's not a fault as such - more of an inconvenience.

Deleted User 192 · Post by **Deleted User 192** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:18 pm

Your battery isn’t dwindling, but it is less efficient and your car has to draw more power to heat the cabin and the batteries (to mitigate the loss in efficiency)

Lesley Judith · Post by **Lesley Judith** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:07 pm

Thank u very much for explaining that it is normal for my car’s battery to go less far in the winter. I didn’t know that!

While I am here please advise re not charging to 100%. Do u all just get it up to 80%? I charge my phone each night and wonder why cars are different.

Thanks, bw Lesley

mediaguy · Post by **mediaguy** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:22 pm

You shouldn't leave it at 100%. So feel free to charge it if you need the full range, but don't do it just because you can.

Seeing as you used a phone analogy, Android phones actually do this too. You can get it to charge to 80%, then set an alarm and it will charge you to 100% just before the alarm goes off, so it doesn't spend hours full.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/1 ... ndroid-12/

sausageroll · Post by **sausageroll** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:27 pm

Lesley Judith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:07 pm Thank u very much for explaining that it is normal for my car’s battery to go less far in the winter. I didn’t know that!

Fossil-fuel cars are the same in winter, too - people just have never really given it the same attention, really.

Lesley Judith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:07 pm While I am here please advise re not charging to 100%. Do u all just get it up to 80%? I charge my phone each night and wonder why cars are different.

They aren't, but people tend to only expect a phone battery to last a couple of years, and don't particularly notice the slow degradation.

Lithium Ion batteries have 'cycles', which for the sake of simplicity, are each time the battery is fully charged and then fully discharged. Each Li-ion battery has a lifespan in those cycles at which point can be measured as a statement of health. Macbooks have counted the number of 'cycles' for a long time now, to express battery health.

Generally speaking, if you keep within 40% to 80%, you vastly reduce any degradation and exponentially increase the life of the battery.

The ID3 does have a 'buffer' outside of the usable range to help lessen the impact, but it'll last longer if you don't bounce from the limits all the time.

Not charging to 100% is so as to avoid 'overcharging', where the battery can become unstable and increase the risk of thermal runaway, where the battery fails spectacularly. Samsung phones had this issue in a high profile way a few years ago https://www.eit.edu.au/samsungs-costly- ... aw-recall/

Daveion · Post by **Daveion** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:28 pm

The batteries degrade more quickly if you charge to 100% all the time. We mostly dont need more range than is available at 80%. If you have a long trip charge to 100% but drive off immediately after charging. Its part of good battery care.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:06 am

mediaguy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:22 pm You shouldn't leave it at 100%. So feel free to charge it if you need the full range, but don't do it just because you can.

Seeing as you used a phone analogy, Android phones actually do this too. You can get it to charge to 80%, then set an alarm and it will charge you to 100% just before the alarm goes off, so it doesn't spend hours full.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/1 ... ndroid-12/

I believe iPhones are similar. Apparently they "learn" when you normally begin to use the phone each day and charge to 80% within about 2 hours of that time. Then they complete the 100% charge. (artificial intelligence?). Again, like the car battery, it doesn't leave the battery at 100% charge for very long. With the car, remember, if you do charge to 100%, drive away as soon as possible, don't leave it at 100%.

Deleted User 192 · Post by **Deleted User 192** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:23 am

Lesley Judith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:07 pm While I am here please advise re not charging to 100%. Do u all just get it up to 80%? I charge my phone each night and wonder why cars are different.

Battery cells don’t like being left fully charged or fully discharged for any length of time.

Therefore, charging your car to 100% and leaving it like that for hours/days isn’t good for the cells.

Charging it to 100% then driving it isn’t an issue, so use that capacity if you’re going to need the maximum range.

monkeyhanger · Post by **monkeyhanger** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:35 pm

Case in point for ambient temp vs battery...

Last week I went to Costco with 2C ambient temp, 34 mile round trip and got 2.5 miles per kWh. Cabin temp set to 17C.

Identical trip today, unchanged cabin temp settings, ambient temp an unseasonal 14C, no battery heating required and it was 3.6 miles per kWh. My starting range was 88 miles, and end range was 74 miles - all due to the car's predicted use and lower ambient temp expectations.

Daveion · Post by **Daveion** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:18 pm

Same here. Did a run this morning with a range of 189 miles. I hadn't used the car since the last cold spell. Did 9 miles and returned with 188 miles.
No cabin heating needed and battery available green bar 100%, ambient 15C.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:23 pm

Daveion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:18 pm Same here. Did a run this morning with a range of 189 miles. I hadn't used the car since the last cold spell. Did 9 miles and returned with 188 miles.
No cabin heating needed and battery available green bar 100%, ambient 15C.

Perhaps we EV owners are shooting ourselves in the foot? We don’t produce global warming emissions but it seems the warmer the weather, the better our EVs run. Maybe we should all get a tank fitted in our boots, fill it with carbon monoxide and release it as we drive “green”.

phixion · Post by **phixion** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:55 pm

I tend to get ~240 miles at 80% in my Tour with these temperatures.

Smitten · Post by **Smitten** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:39 am

Scratch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:23 pm
Daveion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:18 pm Same here. Did a run this morning with a range of 189 miles. I hadn't used the car since the last cold spell. Did 9 miles and returned with 188 miles.
No cabin heating needed and battery available green bar 100%, ambient 15C.
Perhaps we EV owners are shooting ourselves in the foot? We don’t produce global warming emissions but it seems the warmer the weather, the better our EVs run. Maybe we should all get a tank fitted in our boots, fill it with carbon monoxide and release it as we drive “green”.

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think our EVs are "clean" in the first place. Volvo research suggests it is 70,000 miles at current electricity mix before an EV offsets its production pollution overhead. So a lot of not so green driving first...

Smitten · Post by **Smitten** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:42 am

phixion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:55 pm I tend to get ~240 miles at 80% in my Tour with these temperatures.

Very encouraging as I await delivery! A friend with a brand new e Niro sent me his range today - 90% charged and 244 miles but that is a smaller battery.

monkeyhanger · Post by **monkeyhanger** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:39 am

Smitten wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:39 am
Scratch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:23 pm
Daveion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:18 pm Same here. Did a run this morning with a range of 189 miles. I hadn't used the car since the last cold spell. Did 9 miles and returned with 188 miles.
No cabin heating needed and battery available green bar 100%, ambient 15C.
Perhaps we EV owners are shooting ourselves in the foot? We don’t produce global warming emissions but it seems the warmer the weather, the better our EVs run. Maybe we should all get a tank fitted in our boots, fill it with carbon monoxide and release it as we drive “green”.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we think our EVs are "clean" in the first place. Volvo research suggests it is 70,000 miles at current electricity mix before an EV offsets its production pollution overhead. So a lot of not so green driving first...

I certainly didn't buy mine to be an eco warrior - I wanted as big a car I could get for the family, no bigger externally than a Golf (as big a car as the wife will drive), dirt cheap running costs not too much to buy, expected good residuals and relatively quick. The ID3 fits all that, no need to adopt a goatee and top knot.

Smitten · Post by **Smitten** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:38 am

monkeyhanger wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:39 am
Smitten wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:39 am
Scratch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:23 pm

Perhaps we EV owners are shooting ourselves in the foot? We don’t produce global warming emissions but it seems the warmer the weather, the better our EVs run. Maybe we should all get a tank fitted in our boots, fill it with carbon monoxide and release it as we drive “green”.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we think our EVs are "clean" in the first place. Volvo research suggests it is 70,000 miles at current electricity mix before an EV offsets its production pollution overhead. So a lot of not so green driving first...
I certainly didn't buy mine to be an eco warrior - I wanted as big a car I could get for the family, no bigger externally than a Golf (as big a car as the wife will drive), dirt cheap running costs not too much to buy, expected good residuals and relatively quick. The ID3 fits all that, no need to adopt a goatee and top knot.

Yeah I am done with big cars as well and we still have a far too big Jag still sitting on the drive whilst we await Mr ID3. My new car criteria looked similar - smaller city friendly footprint, purpose designed EV, efficient, comfortable for long trips, battery enough for longer trips, hatchback for dog and diving trips with son as well as something that made me feel a lot less guilty than a 3.0 V6!! No hair so top knot not an option. I think I wanted to get ahead of the curve a little with new technology too and make a whole raft of positive changes at home of which the EVs were one part.

Pricej2 · Post by **Pricej2** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:23 pm

Hi

The carbon “payback” time of an ev depends on the mix of electricity generation in the countries of manufacture and of use. Hence payback would be relatively quick for an ev used in France - and even quicker for one both used as made there. Payback times will fall towards zero as electricity supplies are decarbonised - reducing carbon in both manufacture and use. This note is informative, though a few years old now.

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files ... 018_vF.pdf

Best wishes

Jonathan

Dwindling battery!

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