80% battery charge vs full charge

[wayn0]

Hi

ok so my ID3 is a business contract hire so I'm not ovel;y concerned about long term battery erosion BUT :


If I only charge to 80% as recommended it's as if I've lost 20% Battery capacity anyway - Is this really any worse than charging to 100% and topping up less frequently?

Also at the end of 3 years if Ignore the 80% charge suggestion - how much capacity will the battery have reduced to? Vs folloiwing their suggestions?

[G43FAN]

There is not any recommendation to only charge to 80%. The recommendation is only to charge over 80% (i.e. to 100%) if you are going to use the car immediately. Do not leave the car at a SoC over 80% for long periods of time, likewise below 20% (40% in Winter but I suspect that's a nominal figure to take into account countries where winter is regularly sub zero) If you need the range provided by 100% charge on a daily basis then charge to 100%. But in reality if like many drivers you only need for instance 40% of the battery a day then there is no NEED to charge over 80% and it should not be a hardship to stop manage your battery between 40% and 80%.

The other issue with charging over 80% is that on Rapid chargers (50kW upwards DC Chargers) the time to get from say 20% to 80% is similar to the time taken for the last 20% to 100%. So in practical terms if doing a long journey requiring a fast top up, it's probably quicker to stop at 80% then drive to the destination or subsequent fast charger arriving at 10% - 20% to benefit from the Rapid speeds.

[Smitten]

There is not any recommendation to only charge to 80%. The recommendation is only to charge over 80% (i.e. to 100%) if you are going to use the car immediately. Do not leave the car at a SoC over 80% for long periods of time, likewise below 20% (40% in Winter but I suspect that's a nominal figure to take into account countries where winter is regularly sub zero) If you need the range provided by 100% charge on a daily basis then charge to 100%. But in reality if like many drivers you only need for instance 40% of the battery a day then there is no NEED to charge over 80% and it should not be a hardship to stop manage your battery between 40% and 80%.

The other issue with charging over 80% is that on Rapid chargers (50kW upwards DC Chargers) the time to get from say 20% to 80% is similar to the time taken for the last 20% to 100%. So in practical terms if doing a long journey requiring a fast top up, it's probably quicker to stop at 80% then drive to the destination or subsequent fast charger arriving at 10% - 20% to benefit from the Rapid speeds.

I notice that A Better Route Planner gives me charging stops up to about 60% SOC as I have it set to shortest journey time so it is riding the fastest part of the charging curve. It gives you more stops of shorter duration but less time charging on a long journey. Just a different way of thinking versus ICE where it doesn't make sense to go to a garage and only fill £40, you might as well fill it the whole way. Fuel is what is known as a distress purchase so you don't want to do it often. With a BEV you have to think a bit differently.

[Razormark]

Hi

ok so my ID3 is a business contract hire so I'm not ovel;y concerned about long term battery erosion BUT :


If I only charge to 80% as recommended it's as if I've lost 20% Battery capacity anyway - Is this really any worse than charging to 100% and topping up less frequently?

Also at the end of 3 years if Ignore the 80% charge suggestion - how much capacity will the battery have reduced to? Vs folloiwing their suggestions?

We are on the same boat here ! I doubt they won't check the battery capacity when the lease ends. Maybe I'm wrong but if they check the bodywork they should check the battery. And just like we do at work with Bosch equipped e-bikes, your dealer will have access to some fancy diagnostic tool with a full report . Therefore I'm taking care of my battery just like if the car was mine.

It's best to use the battery between 20 and 80%. Once a month I charge it up to 100% at low speed and then use it down to 10%. It tends to re-calibrate some stuff somehow.

[phixion]

VW recommend a minimum of 40% in the winter, so I am charging from 40-80% every 5-6 days.

Mine is a 3 year lease, but like you I am taking care of the battery, if not for the next owner but for me

[MotMot]

No need to charge to 100% to balance the cells. The id3 battery management takes care of that. Besides - you can only ever charge to 95% of actual battery capacity (it’s a 62kwh pack with a usable 57/58.

In the OBD data you can see the calculated battery capacity as well as how many kWh the battery has has charged and discharged. Both are an indicator of battery health.

Too early to tell but I suspect VW have been quite careful with their battery management…

[Razormark]

I had no idea about the 40% in the winter, cheers for the tip. I plug the car to my wall-box every evening anyway .

[no10bowles]

Hi, can someone please help. My wife's ID3 has never charged to full capacity. Its set to 100% and at 100% charge it shows anything from 110 miles 160 miles. We have a podpoint at home where i also charge my tesla where i get full charge of 340 mile every time. Am i missing something here?

[Daveion]

After a full charge what is the charge status in the display? Go to vehicle/charging.
Range will vary with ambient temperature, as I'm sure it does with the Tesla, but the battery SoC is specific to the battery and independent of range.

[no10bowles]

full charge status shows 100% 149 miles after an overnight charge. She travels 2 x 25 mile journey's to work. It has been as low as 108 miles which doesn't seem right to me.

[MotMot]

Is it the pure (45kwh battery) model?

[G43FAN]

What do you mean when you say it's never charged to full capacity? Is the battery showing as 100% after charging or not?

What is the car's average consumption, if it's doing a couple of 25mile journeys a day at the moemnt with the cold temperatures the consumption could be around 2.3 - 2.9 kW/mile which would equate to a range af approx 130 - 160 miles.

As an aside, the general advice is not to charge to 100% unless the full capacity is required, the usage you indicate would suggest 80% charge would be suffiociebt to complete the commute.

[no10bowles]

its pure 45kwh model
when i say it doesnt charge to full capacity i mean shouldnt it charge to the mile range in the specification ie 200+ miles. It always charges to 100% but i would expect to see 200+ miles.
My tesla charges to 340 miles every charge.

[Daveion]

I cant speak for the Tesla range but the ID3 calculates range based on your recent driving and settings.
On a cold day with cabin heating you will not see 3 miles/kW on short runs. Maybe 2.7 or so.
Based on those figures range on a Pure would be around 120 miles.

[Deleted User 192]

its pure 45kwh model
when i say it doesnt charge to full capacity i mean shouldnt it charge to the mile range in the specification ie 200+ miles. It always charges to 100% but i would expect to see 200+ miles.
My tesla charges to 340 miles every charge.

100% is 100%, regardless of what the estimated range is.

I have a 58kWh car, and given the type of driving I do I wouldn’t expect the estimated range to ever show more than 200 miles at this time of year. It can show maybe 220-240 miles in the summer. But that’s my car, based on the driving that I do. Yours will be different.

[MotMot]

Will your Tesla actually do 340 miles on that 100% charge at the moment? Or does it drop to 300 or 280 or lower once you start a journey?

The Vw sets the GOM mileage on the rate of consumption on your last drive. So if it’s winter - short journeys - and/or a heavy right foot that will be low - below 3miles/kWh (3x45kwh capacity = 135 mile range). In summer - lighter right foot, longer trips you may see the range go up to closer 200. (4x45 = 180)

[no10bowles]

thank you this is really helpful information. I think where i didnt really understand is why the Tesla and ID3 technology is different. I guess i expected the ID3 to charge to the published figure (200+) miles the same as Tesla. The tesla always charges to 340 miles but of course i dont get 340 miles. Now i understand this better the issue i now have is that if the car is doing 50 miles a day Monday to Friday then a long journey at the weekend it means more charging on the longer trip as the charge wont be enough due to the mileage during the week. Something we will have to get used to i guess.

[gailjon]

thank you this is really helpful information. I think where i didnt really understand is why the Tesla and ID3 technology is different. I guess i expected the ID3 to charge to the published figure (200+) miles the same as Tesla. The tesla always charges to 340 miles but of course i dont get 340 miles. Now i understand this better the issue i now have is that if the car is doing 50 miles a day Monday to Friday then a long journey at the weekend it means more charging on the longer trip as the charge wont be enough due to the mileage during the week. Something we will have to get used to i guess.

The journeys that the car does during the week does not effect the range of the car at the weekend. Every journey is treated separately for range. The only change is that the VW will guess the range based on previous driving when you start the journey at the weekend. The range will change based on the journey at the weekend as you drive along. It doesn't need to be charged any more frequently unless you go over the battery's capacity based on the weekend journey's driving characteristics. Just because the range is quoted at 150 miles at the start of the journey (based on the weekday journeys) does not mean that you couldn't go 200 miles for instance, based on the driving style for the journey.

[morrishey]

I believe I’ve read somewhere the Tesla range display is kind of hard-coded to read it’s declared range when at 100% (340 miles in your case), and then fractions of that depending on the current %age state. It takes no notice of how you drive the car, so doesn’t adjust based on recent driving history. VW does that calculation on the fly, so giving a range figure that varies depending on consumption rates on recent driving history.

For example, my Tesla app is currently showing 254 miles at 72% - uncannily close to the 360 miles stated range for Model 3LR. Whereas another app I use, which gives an option to estimate range based on recent usage, is telling me that I have 263 miles range for the same %age.

[duckworthsj]

Range calculation is similar to ICE cars. It depends on your last journey / latest average.
For the debate about 100% charge vs 80% max charge: This is not just VW but also advise from other EV manufacturers and also Smartphone makers. The 80% charge routine keeps the battery healthier. However, the advice says that you can charge to 100% providing you immediately use the car. You shouldn’t let the car ‘sit for hours’ at 100%.

The 40% advisory minimum for winter is a ‘safety margin’ just like the ICE ‘tank almost empty’; Both EV and ICE will use more energy in winter… (should not be surprising ???) So this 40% is to avoid that you are STARTING a journey with 25% and with lights, heating, battery conditioning etc, and less regen than normal, and get a nasty surprise when your car grinds to a halt….. No problem if you are completing a journey and your battery is going down to 20% by the time you reach your destination…..