ID3 range-ometer just cannot be believed

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Jimmyinit wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:23 pm
mawright89 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:18 pm Can I ask.. just got my car.. regarding the pre condition of the batteries.. do I have to set a time in the app for it to sort the batteries out. Or can I say, 15 mins before we leave I set the cabin temp to 19, will that start to pre condition as well. Just wondering. Sorry if it's a little off topic.
Hi the later is what I do on a daily basis and it seems to help but others have said that it is not connected so try it on a known trip and see if it helps or not :D
I believe Scott28tt is correct that there is no facility to precondition the battery temperature. However, I too have found that if the batteries are charging when you start the AC from the app when you get to the car 15-20 minutes later the green battery bar is full. On some cold morning if I'm not plugged in the battery green bar will be just over half to three qtrs. I can only speak from my experience and finding. Charging requires that the batteries are at the correct temperature. When I initialise AC the charge drops a percentage or two and when that happens the charger is then preconditioning the batteries to top that tiny bit up. On my car thats how it works for me. Its not a process you can select but the coming together of the drop in charge and cabin pre conditioning creates the need for pre conditioning of the batteries.
It has worked 100% for me on cold morning this Winter so far.
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

Looking at the output graphs from the charger - and what the car is charging (from Tronity) that is unfortunately not what is happening Dave... its using some juice to run the heaters/ac rather than preheat the battery. The battery heater takes a large (6-7kw) chunk of energy - and on both graphs the 2-3kw from the cabin heater is clear - no more.
mawright89
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Post by mawright89 »

Thanks for the answers guys. I'll have to contact the dealer and try and get a complete answer. Hopefully updates will give us more control of it. Be nice to leave with the battery's at a temperature where best available efficiency can be gained immediately
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I havent looked at Tronity when I do this but in the Connect app the battery is charging at around 3kW.
I know from other observation of the heater demand that after the initial surge the heater drops back to around 1.3 kW even on a very cold morning. So I made the assumption that the balance of 7.4kW less 4.3kW was perhaps heating the batteries. Without measuring current from the charger I dont know if its using its full capacity.
Either way I get a full green bar on battery availability. Does that make sense?
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mediaguy
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Post by mediaguy »

The battery conditioning is one of the improvements in 3.0. If you're not happy with it as it is, know that it's already got planned improvements.
Range optimization at low outside temperatures
With the upcoming ID. Software update, we are introducing improvements through optimized thermal management. This reduces consumption and thus increases the range by adjusting the activation threshold of the battery heating, especially in short-haul operation. At the same time, the charging performance in winter is improved by adjusting the heating threshold for DC charging.
In a further step, the preconditioning of the high-voltage battery during AC charging is also improved. The maximum charging power will also be increased. The optimization of the heating curves for the interior in the new climate software also contributes to increasing efficiency on short journeys in winter.
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Jimmyinit
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Post by Jimmyinit »

I am not an expert on what the car is and isn't designed to do by default but surely if the cabin heater is on it is drawing power from the HV batteries and this is load on this means heat? Or am I wrong and the 3kw is being drawn from the 12V battery :?:
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

Jimmyinit wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:57 am I am not an expert on what the car is and isn't designed to do by default but surely if the cabin heater is on it is drawing power from the HV batteries and this is load on this means heat? Or am I wrong and the 3kw is being drawn from the 12V battery :?:
The cabin heating draws power, but the battery is a very big heavy block and won't heat up much just from providing power for the cabin. That might help a bit, as might charging just before you set off. To get fully up to temperature, the battery has it's own dedicated, pumped liquid cooling and heating system which is more powerful than the cabin system.

There is seemingly no way to intentionally tell the battery heating system to activate in advance, and that should be coming in future (along with a change in the settings so that the car only tries to heat the battery when driving at a lower temperature than currently). However, there have been a few reports now incl one YouTube video that show it turns on as soon as the car turns on at low temperatures (drawing around 8kW), before you set off. If you are really bothered about maximizing every mile of range, that knowledge opens up an opportunity to preheat your battery before you set off, but it'd probably be more faff than stopping for a charge on your route. For example you could sit in your car while having your breakfast and then recharge it to 100% just before leaving. I don't know if anyone has ever done this. It apparently takes about 15 mins to warm the battery at 8kW. You would then need to recharge at 7kW for 15-20 minutes, unless you could keep plugged in while it heats the battery, which I'm not sure about. So around half an hour in total. You shouldn't lose any appreciable heat in that second period while recharging.
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woodentom
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Post by woodentom »

I got mine in july. Was told 220 miles on 80%, today it was 158 miles. Yes it is cold so with the heater on and winter tyres i think i will charging everyday

158 range is first thing so i haven't gone anywhere, at what point do i get worried if there is a battery issue?
Smitten
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Post by Smitten »

The ID3 is not alone in having reduced range in cold weather and battery heating chewing through range. We have an e208 currently and ID3 on order. The e208 pre heats the battery when cabin is pre heated and has a heat pump as standard. Yesterday, pre heated in 5 degrees C I averaged 3.4 miles/kWh over a longer journey of 60 miles. Today with no pre heating in 9 degrees C, the car went though 9% charge in 6 miles giving 2.2 miles/kWh. So 84% down to 75% battery over a short journey. I haven't really paid attention to it before but would now pre heat before any journey where range is important. Hopefully it won't be long before ID3 software is upgraded to allow battery pre heating as it makes quite a difference on a smaller battery.
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

woodentom wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:48 pm I got mine in july. Was told 220 miles on 80%, today it was 158 miles. Yes it is cold so with the heater on and winter tyres i think i will charging everyday

158 range is first thing so i haven't gone anywhere, at what point do i get worried if there is a battery issue?
Range will be different from person to person based on driving style/speed etc but one thing in common for everyone is that it's effected by the temperature. The ID.3 heats the batteries in cold weather and most people will have the heater on too and these use up the battery.

So assuming you aren't doing a lot of motorway miles over the national speed limit then I would start to worry if it's warm outside and when checking actual usage you are getting 160 miles for 80% of the battery.
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