How to get a deal for an EV Home Charger. My method!

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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

If you want to beat the high prices of EV chargers from the "big boys", this is the method you can try.

Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the Wallbox charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
Thus, most installers will be VAT registered. The local electrician may not be an approved installer for the grant.
Installers must provide 3 years onsite warranty. Wallbox site states a 2 year warranty. See https://wallbox.com/en_uk/sales-and-refunds.
Hence, there must be an agreement between Wallbox and installers for the £350 grant as it requires a 3 year warranty.

*** For the benefit of Utumno ***

A customer may provide their own chargepoint if it’s on the approved chargepoint model list and they can provide a manufacturer’s 3-year on-site warranty. However, such equipment will not be eligible for a grant. The installer may only claim for the cost of labour and other parts provided for the installation.

****

1. Go to:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sv/preview

This provides a link for all approved installers.

2. Search for local installers (Eg. part of your post code or City/Town)

3. Send emails to them for a quote.

4. Let them quote and have a frank conversation. E.g.
WALLBOX PULSAR PLUS 5m tethered costs £490 including VAT delivered. Eg. https://www.electricpoint.com or TradeSparky.

I need a mini consumer unit and RCDO. All extra materials are no more than £60 including VAT.

Total cost is £490 + £60 = £550. Deduct £350 grant = £200.

Then discuss labour costs.

Mine is a simple 2 to 2.5 hour install. He has to travel to me and back and do paperwork for the grant, Council and Western Power. This takes time,
What is a fair price? £250 is fair enough for less than 1/2 day (or £500 for 2 installs)
Total cost is £450 installed.

I received a quote for £900 for 2 Wallbox chargers installed at 2 houses, a few doors away. Both need a mini consumer unit and RDCO.
I have two ID.3 cars on offer (I am not a troll with fake orders!)
The quote was based on a charger price of £525 as opposed to £490. May be he needs some extra margin!

The question remains whether he will do one for £450, given an Ohme Home Pro arrived today unexpected via the £499 Octopus offer. In fact he will.
I guess I could cancel it.

Octopus Energy charge £575 for the Wallbox and long lead time. Ohme Home Pro is now £549.

I did get a quote of £160 from a local electrician for installation including cables (+ mini consumer unit). But, he cannot get the £350 grant.
You can see the high install charges the big boys want. They want the entire grant and are charging well over £500 a day labour.
Without grant one would pay c£700.

Via Ohme I could not get the Home Pro for less than £670. I got the £499 Octopus deal and cannot get the second at this price. My lowest Wallbox quote from the big boys was Octopus Energy.

You can even choose a Zappi to install using my method.

This thread may be of help to some of you, especially of you are not aware of the link:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sv/preview

This all depends on labour cost expectations. You may not even get anywhere. But, you can try, if you wish and like "deals".
Last edited by Cherry on Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Doesn't sound like you have a deal at all - you either pay £900-950 inclusive of grant (£550-600 net), or you pay £450 plus a sparky's install costs, but not many sparkys are registered for the grant.

I'd go with the grant option rather than forego my 3 year warranty with an independent sparky not grant registered.

The grant eligible installers are pocketing that grant money as an extra, no doubt, but it's not coming directly out of my pocket.

Once the installation grant disappears (April 22?), everyone will still be paying £550-700, but if something goes wrong with their charger in the warranty period, they might have to pay a sparky to disconnect it for you to send back yo the manufacturer for repair, then pay again to refit the repaired unit.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:52 pm Doesn't sound like you have a deal at all - you either pay £900-950 inclusive of grant (£550-600 net), or you pay £450 plus a sparky's install costs, but not many sparkys are registered for the grant.

I'd go with the grant option rather than forego my 3 year warranty with an independent sparky not grant registered.

The grant eligible installers are pocketing that grant money as an extra, no doubt, but it's not coming directly out of my pocket.

Once the installation grant disappears (April 22?), everyone will still be paying £550-700, but if something goes wrong with their charger in the warranty period, they might have to pay a sparky to disconnect it for you to send back yo the manufacturer for repair, then pay again to refit the repaired unit.
My quote is £900 for TWO Wall chargers installed after the grant, which includes the 3 year warranty for a registered company. This equates to £450 each for Wallbox.

Are you saying £450 for a installed Wallbox with 3 years onsite warranty is not a deal? Please find me a comparable deal. Octopus charge £575.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
This is incorrect. Any charger eligible for the grant can be adopted by any approved installer and remain grant eligible.

In fact this is precisely what my own installer has done with our Andersen.

Always do your research!
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

This bit right here

"I received a quote for £900 for 2 Wallbox chargers installed at 2 houses, a few doors away. Both need a mini consumer unit and RDCO."

It reads like this is additional to your £450 each, and most of the post reads as if it's hypothetical.

Let's also be Frank that your price is based on getting 2 at the same time installed a few doors from each other - that's the reason you'll be getting the discount. 2 chargers installed in a single visit. They'll charge at least 3/4 of the price of 2, just to do one, as the travel time is taken into account for each job. Very few people will be looking to get 2 at once, so that discount is not going to be achievable just to get 1 done.

So the quote

"Are you saying £450 for a installed Wallbox with 3 years onsite warranty is not a deal? Please find me a comparable deal. Octopus charge £575."

It's a bit misleading to say you're getting a charger fully installed for £450, you would not get that price for 1 fully installed, you'd be looking like £550-600.

It's like me saying I bought a tin of Heinz beans for 40p when I actually bought an 8 pack for £3.20
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:27 pm
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
This is incorrect. Any charger eligible for the grant can be adopted by any approved installer and remain grant eligible.

In fact this is precisely what my own installer has done with our Andersen.

Always do your research!
If you buy your own you may only get 3 years warranty if installed on the day of delivery. Why would the installer give you extra days? They are supposed to give 3 years onsite warranty. I cannot find an installer who will give 3 years warranty if I buy the WallBox. They warranty starts the day of purchase for end users. Installers can claim from install. May be I will ask Wallbox.

"The grant works by a customer choosing an EVHS installer to install their chargepoint. The EVHS installer checks that they qualify and then applies on the customer’s behalf. The installer will bill the customer for the price of the installation, less the grant amount they have applied for. If the application is successful, the installer will be paid the grant amount that they have offset from the customer’s bill."

In my case the install cost is less than the grant. It falls foul of the scheme, if I purchase the Wallbox.
Can they bill me a credit note? Is this a bill? What does your research say about that?
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:41 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:27 pm
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
This is incorrect. Any charger eligible for the grant can be adopted by any approved installer and remain grant eligible.

In fact this is precisely what my own installer has done with our Andersen.

Always do your research!
If you buy your own you may only get 3 years warranty if installed on the day of delivery. Why would the installer give you extra days? They are supposed to give 3 years onsite warranty. I cannot find an installer who will give 3 years warranty if I buy the WallBox. They warranty starts the day of purchase for end users. Installers can claim from install. May be I will ask Wallbox.

"The grant works by a customer choosing an EVHS installer to install their chargepoint. The EVHS installer checks that they qualify and then applies on the customer’s behalf. The installer will bill the customer for the price of the installation, less the grant amount they have applied for. If the application is successful, the installer will be paid the grant amount that they have offset from the customer’s bill."

In my case the install cost is less than the grant. It falls foul of the scheme, if I purchase the Wallbox.
Can they bill me a credit note? Is this a bill? What does your research say about that?

I have 3 years on-site warranty from date of installation and I purchased my own charger which my installer then installed. The charger was sat in its box for about 3 weeks.

I’m not terribly interested in justifying it to you, if I’m honest. These are just facts which really aren’t in any question.

I’m also not really interested in doing your research for you. Jog on!
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:25 pm I have 3 years on-site warranty from date of installation and I purchased my own charger which my installer then installed. The charger was sat in its box for about 3 weeks.

I’m not terribly interested in justifying it to you, if I’m honest. These are just facts which really aren’t in any question.

I’m also not really interested in doing your research for you. Jog on!
So, we have your word only.
"Jog on" So rude! Are you having a bad day? Are you okay?

Andersen website:

"My Andersen chargepoint was supplied and installed by my electrician or another installer. How long is my guarantee?

If your chargepoint and/or ancillary item was installed benefiting from a grant under OZEV Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme Andersen will guarantee your chargepoint hardware for a period of 3 years on a return to base basis. You should contact your electrician or installer if you wish to claim under your guarantee.

If your chargepoint and/or ancillary item was supplied on a parts only basis (I.e. not installed) it will be covered by a 1 Year return to base warranty. Andersen will arrange for the delivery and collection of a replacement unit as required.

Please note that yourself or your installer must have registered your hardware for your warranty to be validated.

Your installer or supplier is responsible for all call out and labour charges during the warranty period. Your installer or supplier is also responsible for return postage and packaging.

How long is an Andersen guarantee period?

Chargepoints and/or ancillary items installed by an Andersen installer and, if applicable, benefiting from a grant under the OZEV Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme will be guaranteed for 3 years and include on-site parts and labour.

Chargepoints and/or ancillary items supplied by Andersen on a parts only basis (I.e. not installed by an Andersen installer) will be covered by a 1 Year return to base warranty.

For the avoidance of doubt, return to base means that you will need to cover the cost of returning the goods to us for any reason."


Wallbox: https://wallbox.com/en_uk/sales-and-refunds

2 year warranty.

So, if the user buys, I wonder on what basis the installer will give a 3 year warranty. It seems there is an agreement between the installer and Wallbox for 3 years to qualify for the grant.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 pm
Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:25 pm I have 3 years on-site warranty from date of installation and I purchased my own charger which my installer then installed. The charger was sat in its box for about 3 weeks.

I’m not terribly interested in justifying it to you, if I’m honest. These are just facts which really aren’t in any question.

I’m also not really interested in doing your research for you. Jog on!
So, we have your word only.

Yes, that's right. Nobody's asking you for proof of anything either, we are taking you at your word only. I don't accept that your word is somehow better than mine.
Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 pm "Jog in" So rude! Are you having a bad day? Are you okay?

I'm touched you care. And it's "jog on".
Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 pm Andersen website:

"My Andersen chargepoint was supplied and installed by my electrician or another installer. How long is my guarantee?

If your chargepoint and/or ancillary item was installed benefiting from a grant under OZEV Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme Andersen will guarantee your chargepoint hardware for a period of 3 years on a return to base basis. You should contact your electrician or installer if you wish to claim under your guarantee.

If your chargepoint and/or ancillary item was supplied on a parts only basis (I.e. not installed) it will be covered by a 1 Year return to base warranty. Andersen will arrange for the delivery and collection of a replacement unit as required.

Please note that yourself or your installer must have registered your hardware for your warranty to be validated.

Your installer or supplier is responsible for all call out and labour charges during the warranty period. Your installer or supplier is also responsible for return postage and packaging.

How long is an Andersen guarantee period?

Chargepoints and/or ancillary items installed by an Andersen installer and, if applicable, benefiting from a grant under the OZEV Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme will be guaranteed for 3 years and include on-site parts and labour.

Chargepoints and/or ancillary items supplied by Andersen on a parts only basis (I.e. not installed by an Andersen installer) will be covered by a 1 Year return to base warranty.

For the avoidance of doubt, return to base means that you will need to cover the cost of returning the goods to us for any reason."

None of which contradicts my situation of having 3 years on-site warranty from date of installation, which I have in writing. The purchase was not on a parts-only basis. Perhaps there's more information about specifically how I structured the cost of my charge point installation that I'm not sharing with you on the basis it's absolutely none of your business!

So, just for clarity, your quoted statement below remains incorrect, and may misguide new forum members, and I'm sure you'd agree it would be a shame to propagate incorrect information:
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
A customer is perfectly at liberty to provide their own OZEV-qualifying charge point to an OZEV-registered installer and claim the grant for the installation, at least until homeowner EVSE grants cease later this year. There are obvious restrictions in double dipping for charge points moved between premises

Is it possible you have fundamentally misunderstood how the grant actually works ? Always do your research !

I'll help. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -customers
The Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme (EVHS) is a grant that provides a 75% contribution to the cost of one chargepoint and its installation. A grant cap is set at £350 (including VAT) per installation. The main requirement is that a person owns, leases, or has ordered a qualifying vehicle and has dedicated off-street parking at their property. A person may apply for 2 chargepoints at the same property if they have 2 qualifying vehicles.

The grant works by a customer choosing an EVHS installer to install their chargepoint. The EVHS installer checks that they qualify and then applies on the customer’s behalf. The installer will bill the customer for the price of the installation, less the grant amount they have applied for. If the application is successful, the installer will be paid the grant amount that they have offset from the customer’s bill. The Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) aims to process claims for experienced installers within 30 working days.
Nowhere in the regulations does it state that the OZEV installer must supply and install the charger.
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Post by Cherry »

I have clarified that this is for the Wallbox. Since my labour cost is lower than the grant, if the installer did not buy the charger they would have to provide me with a refund. The did not think this would work under the scheme. I am am not sure.

The installers also mentioned they had to provide 3 years onsite warranty, and if I buy the Wallbox, it comes with 2 years warranty and they may not be able to provide the extra year. so cannot apply for the grant.
Last edited by Cherry on Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:35 pm This bit right here

"I received a quote for £900 for 2 Wallbox chargers installed at 2 houses, a few doors away. Both need a mini consumer unit and RDCO."

It reads like this is additional to your £450 each, and most of the post reads as if it's hypothetical.

Let's also be Frank that your price is based on getting 2 at the same time installed a few doors from each other - that's the reason you'll be getting the discount. 2 chargers installed in a single visit. They'll charge at least 3/4 of the price of 2, just to do one, as the travel time is taken into account for each job. Very few people will be looking to get 2 at once, so that discount is not going to be achievable just to get 1 done.

So the quote

"Are you saying £450 for a installed Wallbox with 3 years onsite warranty is not a deal? Please find me a comparable deal. Octopus charge £575."

It's a bit misleading to say you're getting a charger fully installed for £450, you would not get that price for 1 fully installed, you'd be looking like £550-600.

It's like me saying I bought a tin of Heinz beans for 40p when I actually bought an 8 pack for £3.20

No, I have written quotes. It is confirmed as £450 for one, if I want one. Since the Ohme arrived, it looks like I will get one.

The guy is local and went to the university opposite me. We had a good chat.

His travel time is not great and can fit me in when I want (I asked for late March).

Think about his labour cost. Mine is a 2 to 2.5 hour job. Even at 4 hours ((travel and paperwork) @ £50/hour this is £200 + VAT = £240.
I have had quotes for £160 labour (no VAT) from someone 30 miles away, but he cannot claim the grant. If he could, it would be £360 installed.
He also does work for a EV company and his company will charge £670.
Most electricians do not charge £700 a day.
£40-£50 an hour is reasonable.

I also have a second quote at £500, a third at £670 and Octopus as £575.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

The words of Utumno "Always do your research!

Did he? His post is also misleading to forum members. Let me help him:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -customers

"A customer may provide their own chargepoint if it’s on the approved chargepoint model list and they can provide a manufacturer’s 3-year on-site warranty. However, such equipment will not be eligible for a grant. The installer may only claim for the cost of labour and other parts provided for the installation."

If the labour and other parts is less than £350, you cannot claim it all if you buy your own charger. In my case, I cannot buy the Wallbox myself and get the full grant as my install charges are less than £350. Then there is an issue of getting a 3 year onsite warranty on the Wallbox for a self-purchase.

It seems Utumno's installation charges were at least £350. Only he knows what he paid!

This may explain why the installers want to pocket at least £350 for an install.

To be clear. If the installer supplies an eligible home charger then you can get the full £350 grant. But, if you supply it then you may not get the full £350 if the installation charges and other parts cost less than £350. I would not want Untumo to misguide new forum members, and I'm sure he'd agree it would be a shame to propagate incorrect or misleading information using his example or make incorrect assumptions without the facts. You cannot always claim the full grant if you buy your own charger. Often you need to pay high installation charges to do so.

Despite quoting the government link, is it possible Utumno fundamentally misunderstood how the grant actually works and the point I was making?
Always do your research! Read to the end of the documents!

May be Utumno will take his own rude advice and "jog on"! (to tell someone forcefully and rather rudely to go away).

Two people can be rude, but it tends to spoil a forum.
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Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

The way I read the website it is saying you can provide your own charger so long as it comes with a 3 year warranty but you cannot claim the grant for the equipment. If you then chose an approved installer they can claim the grant for the installation.

In other words the grant is really for the installation of an approved charger by an approved installer, not for the charger itself.

I’d have thought pretty much every installer is going to claim the full £350 regardless of how difficult it is to fit because why wouldn’t they? (I suppose the odd rare one wouldn’t). If that doesn’t cover the actual work they they will quote even more on top of that.

When they pull the grant the installation cost will probably be cheaper than now because they aren’t get a minimum of £350 to fit it and don’t have to faff about claiming and waiting to be paid.
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Post by G43FAN »

This isn't a toaster, the majority of Electrical equipment that requires installation by a qualified installer is warrantied from the date the installation was signed off, not the date it arrived on premise. It's usually a condition of any extended warranty that the installers details are supplied.
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Post by MotMot »

From my understanding of the process - becoming an approved installer costs money (training) and filling in the requisite paperwork for the grant which involves dealing with both the government and the DNO takes a while and can bring up hurdles. And if for some reason there is a problem (as there was with my install that required two additional visits) then that cost is shouldered by the installer.

Therefore I think that the grant effectively covering the cost of the install is pretty fair.

From speaking to (non forum) friends getting installs it’s hard to find anyone with any free slots around here - so if I were a company I wouldn’t be giving much - if any - discount at the moment.

Most of the installers around here are local firms - and my charger is a UK based company - so I’m quite happy to help SME’s make a small profit.
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Post by mediaguy »

From speaking to (non forum) friends getting installs it’s hard to find anyone with any free slots around here - so if I were a company I wouldn’t be giving much - if any - discount at the moment.
Down in Hampshire, I ordered a zappi direct and they said they would send at least three quotes in 48 hours. A week later I only had one, so I think you are right. If you can get an installer in the next 11 weeks, you're doing well.
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Post by Utumno »

I'm going to gloss over Cherry's usual claptrap, personal attacks, nonsense and baseless accusations whenever he's being disagreed with, and focus on this nugget:
If the installer supplies an eligible home charger then you can get the full £350 grant. But, if you supply it then you may not get the full £350 if the installation charges and other parts cost less than £350.
Thank you for agreeing, however grudgingly, with me that your original statement of :
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the Wallbox charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
was absolutely incorrect. We got there in the end.
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Post by Utumno »

A further comment though, I also agree with you that the presence of the Homecharge grant is distorting the market for EVSE installs. You use much more emotive words than I do, but while the grant exists installers will certainly attempt to 'pad' their installation fees to take full advantage of the grant, often to the consumer's detriment.

I don't think the removal of the grant will necessarily cause a drop in prices though, as demand is clearly outstripping supply and this may well get worse rather than better.
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Post by Cherry »

Utumno wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:24 am I'm going to gloss over Cherry's usual claptrap, personal attacks, nonsense and baseless accusations whenever he's being disagreed with, and focus on this nugget:
If the installer supplies an eligible home charger then you can get the full £350 grant. But, if you supply it then you may not get the full £350 if the installation charges and other parts cost less than £350.
Thank you for agreeing, however grudgingly, with me that your original statement of :
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the Wallbox charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
was absolutely incorrect. We got there in the end.
Let's look at Utumno's usual claptrap, insults, arrogance and delusions of superiority.

***
Utumno wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:27 pm

In response to a incomplete quote " Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it."

He wrote: "This is incorrect. Any charger eligible for the grant can be adopted by any approved installer and remain grant eligible."

"In fact this is precisely what my own installer has done with our Andersen."

***

Utumno is incorrect. If a user supplies a charger himself and the install is less than £350 he cannot get the £350 grant. The maximum he can get is the install price.
There is no eligibility for the full grant. He did not make this critical point clear.

I am glad he got there in the end. It was hard work!
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Cherry wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:19 am
Utumno wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:24 am I'm going to gloss over Cherry's usual claptrap, personal attacks, nonsense and baseless accusations whenever he's being disagreed with, and focus on this nugget:
If the installer supplies an eligible home charger then you can get the full £350 grant. But, if you supply it then you may not get the full £350 if the installation charges and other parts cost less than £350.
Thank you for agreeing, however grudgingly, with me that your original statement of :
Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the Wallbox charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it.
was absolutely incorrect. We got there in the end.
Let's look at Utumno's usual claptrap.

***
Utumno wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:27 pm

In response to a incomplete quote " Note, for the £350 grant the installer has to supply and install the charger, you cannot buy it yourself and ask him to install it."

He wrote: "This is incorrect. Any charger eligible for the grant can be adopted by any approved installer and remain grant eligible."

"In fact this is precisely what my own installer has done with our Andersen."

***

Utumno is incorrect. If a user supplies a charger himself and the install is less than £350 he cannot get the £350 grant. The maximum he can get is the install price.
There is no eligibility for the full grant.

I am glad he got there in the end. It was hard work!

You're changing the facts under discussion so you feel right again Cherry.
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