Real world cost?

[richardofyorks]

I’m thinking of getting an ID3 Life Performance Pro, 58 kWh
I’ve read on another website (Zap something) the 77kwh battery costs £12.30 to fully charge @16p/kwh.
My electricity supplier is increasing the cost in April to 27p/kWh.
If my maths are right that would be £20. For approx 200 miles.
And £50 for £500 miles
My current car does about 500 miles on £55 worth of fuel which is not much different.
I assume the 58kwh car costs less to charge than the 77?
Am I missing something or is the cost advantage narrowing significantly?
How much will it cost me to fully charge a 58kwh? (On normal tariffs ie 27p from April)
Thanks for any help/advice

[ItshardtobuyId3]

You must be getting 60mpg which is pretty good.

58kWh would cost you less to charge but only because effectively it would have a smaller fuel capacity. If you get an electric car then you’ll want an EV tariff like Octopus GO. You pay more for peak rate (currently 30.7p) but you get a 4 hour cheap rate of 7.5p currently on a 12 month fix.

That brings a 58kWh hour charge down to £4.35 though will put up your domestic use a bit. You can offset some of that by putting white goods on a timer and running them at night.

Edit: a full charge from flat (which you’d rarely do) on a standard rate from April would be £15.66.

[monkeyhanger]

On a normal tariff at the new rates, you're right, there's next to nothing in it, in the dead of Winter (where the 77kWh battery should get you 200 miles. In the Summer it'll be more like 260-380 miles.

How much to fully charge a 58kWh battery vs a 77kWh battery? About 20% less, but you'll get through it quicker. It's like asking how many miles can I do on £40 of diesel vs £50 of diesel.

If you're changing for reduced running costs,
If you can charge on a cheap overnight tariff, that is where the savings are.

[Utumno]

I’m thinking of getting an ID3 Life Performance Pro, 58 kWh
I’ve read on another website (Zap something) the 77kwh battery costs £12.30 to fully charge @16p/kwh.
My electricity supplier is increasing the cost in April to 27p/kWh.
If my maths are right that would be £20. For approx 200 miles.
And £50 for £500 miles
My current car does about 500 miles on £55 worth of fuel which is not much different.
I assume the 58kwh car costs less to charge than the 77?
Am I missing something or is the cost advantage narrowing significantly?
How much will it cost me to fully charge a 58kwh? (On normal tariffs ie 27p from April)
Thanks for any help/advice

Running some man maths on your figures, your ~64mpg Diesel ICE costs 11p/mile to fuel compared to the ~9p/mile for the EV at an assumed 3mi/kWh efficiency. This represents an 18.2% saving per mile in favour of the EV. 18.2% cheaper for each mile you drive still seems like a lot to me!

The other way of looking at it is to realise that in order for the EV and your Diesel ICE to be fuel-cost-equivalent on the same assumptions as above, your electricity price/kWh would have to be 33p rather than 27p.

Don't worry about the size of the battery, it's irrelevant to the maths

[richardofyorks]

Thanks for the replies guys

[Alongwait]

Thanks for the replies guys

As the electric price increases the saving from running an EV is reducing, however if you factor the maintenance cost, I still believe it is cheaper to run in the long term.

[duckworthsj]

Also not forgetting - certain cities are introducing restrictions on thermic cars and no doubt there will additional fees. This will also include certain hybrids.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

Thanks for the replies guys

Another thing to factor in is the cost of a charger since the grant is going (unless you live in a flat or rented accommodation).

You’re probably looking at £900 to buy and install a smart charger or could get a dumb charger and rely on the car to do scheduling. It’s a one off cost but would probably remove any saving in fuel cost for the first year.

[monkeyhanger]

Thanks for the replies guys

Another thing to factor in is the cost of a charger since the grant is going (unless you live in a flat or rented accommodation).

You’re probably looking at £900 to buy and install a smart charger or could get a dumb charger and rely on the car to do scheduling. It’s a one off cost but would probably remove any saving in fuel cost for the first year.

You need a smart charger- a common theme on this site is that when you leave the ID3 to schedule charging you're highly likely not to get a scheduled charge.

[MotMot]

Roughly (very roughly) you'll get between 3 (winter motorway) and 4 (B roads summer) miles per KwH.

So - your 500 mile 'tank' is between 125 and 166 kwh. At 20p per kwh thats between £25 and £33, and at 30p per KwH its between £37.50 and £50.

At octopus Go rates (presently 7.5p for four hours between midnight and 4am) thats £9.37 to £12.45.

Throw in the odd free charge (at work - or tesco etc..) and that skews the figures downwards quite sharply.

[Dinsdale]

I had it that at 3.7m/kWh then 40p per kWh is the break even point with my auris. there are some other factors like road tax (£130/year) and higher servicing costs.
If you are looking to go to EV then moving from a "normal" tarriff to an EV tarriff would be your best option.

[G43FAN]

Like a great deal of things, people's personal situation changes the position. And yes the price of electric is going to change things..

My diesel the EV replaced averaged 36mpg over 4 years.. Factor in that I have been working from home for 2 years and I've saved all round as the ID.3 was cheaper than the car I was originally going to buy as a replacement and as I am lucky enough to have 5p Octopus Go at the moment I pay very little per mile. (Although £600 for 4 tyres at 7500 miles wasn't nice)

I recently did a trip to the lakes and some driving around that probably covered 400 miles, I used public chargers for the whole journey and it cost me £45, if I had done all the charging at home it would have been less than £10.. the same journey would have been £75 in my old diesel.

With regards to the cheap rate charging, be very careful the current rates on offer do not provide a saving overall if you have higher household usage.

[monkeyhanger]

You have to weigh up household vs EV use.

Right now, we're using Octopus GO on 15p/5p per kWh, with a tariff expiring in May. Expecting that to go up to 28 or 30p/7.5p per kWh. Only 40% of our total electricity use is the household, the rest is for 2 x ID3 cars, yet only 40% of the cost is attributed to the car's. If you can get that cheap overnight rate and do decent miles, you'll still be saving vs a slightly cheaper rate with no overnight charging cheap rate.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

You have to weigh up household vs EV use.

Right now, we're using Octopus GO on 15p/5p per kWh, with a tariff expiring in May. Expecting that to go up to 28 or 30p/7.5p per kWh. Only 40% of our total electricity use is the household, the rest is for 2 x ID3 cars, yet only 40% of the cost is attributed to the car's. If you can get that cheap overnight rate and do decent miles, you'll still be saving vs a slightly cheaper rate with no overnight charging cheap rate.

The cap is going up to 27p in April so with a 50/50 split GO will seem very good value. Although I can’t see GO staying it’s current level long. I’d guess 35p / 10p of not 40p/10p

[Gwyver]

As previous replies show, there's a wide spread of costs experienced by car owners so each person's milage cost comparisons may be very different:
Here are a couple of tables which show a range of milage costs.

I haven't included the high Pence/KWH of some Super Fast Chargers because I assume for the majority of BEV owners the use of these will be an exception rather than the norm.
Similarly I haven't included the very low Octopus Go tariff because for these users the higher cost of their normal tariff will partially offset the EV charging cost.

[djkav]

Don't forget, the price of fossil fuels is continually going up too. In my locale, it's around 147-156p p/l diesel.

[3twins]

I had a look at the costs when I changed from a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV to the ID.3. I'm retiring in 10 days but working up to Feb 2020 I had a 5 mile commute and about once or twice per month I had work related journeys of up to 204 miles round trip. TBH the ioniq was perfect for that as I could commute on electricity (in 2018 I had a 7.2 KW pod point installed when the grant was high and have economy 7) and could do the long runs starting with a full charge this usually rendered about 80mpg obviously loping off around 30-35 electrical miles from the total. Running as a hybrid at 70mph in the summer give about 65mpg and in winter about 60mpg (very efficient car with cd of 0,24 vs the ID.3 with a CD of 0.27) I averaged 186mpg over the 3 years and 27,000 miles I had the car meaning that I was using it as an EV > 75% of the time and when using it as a hybrid the fuel cost at todays prices was 10-11 pence per mile. However, there is a problem using PHEV's predominantly as EV's as you have to keep the fuel level low so that you put small amounts of petrol in frequently as in £5.00 at a time. If not you get water in the ethanol (which draws moisture from the tank vents from the atmosphere) this happened to my car when no long journeys were taking place due lockdowns the car started to misfire and threw an EML and had to have a couple of spark plugs and an injector replaced. But from an economic point of view a PHEV or Hybrid that can manage 60+ mpg at motorway speeds will cost the same per mile as a BEV averaging 3.8 miles per KWH using public charging at 40p per KWH. In reality its likely that journeys on pure public charging will be rare if you have a home charger. My overnight rate is now 13p per KWH (up from 8,7 in 2018) so an ID.3 will cost me 3.3 -4 p per mile to run depending on season.

People bash hybrids and PHEV's but if I hadn't had both I'm not sure I would have ended up with a BEV

[Utumno]

People bash hybrids and PHEV's but if I hadn't had both I'm not sure I would have ended up with a BEV

Only EV activists and purists really bash them in my experience. A good PHEV properly managed is the best possible gateway drug to BEV ownership. And let's face it, there are many use cases where ICE is pre-eminent as BEV designs and efficiencies continue to evolve.

[cornbutter]

PHEV are required while we still have some of the issues with BEV. I strongly considered one when weighing up the ID3. There are rare occasions where I need to do relatively long range distances in as short a time as possible. If I was regularly doing long distance journeys where time was a factor, I don't think I would get a BEV.

I remember reading that PHEV also have a really low cost per kilometer maintenance cost, so it really does depend on your use case.

[Up the jumper]

PHEV are required while we still have some of the issues with BEV. I strongly considered one when weighing up the ID3. There are rare occasions where I need to do relatively long range distances in as short a time as possible. If I was regularly doing long distance journeys where time was a factor, I don't think I would get a BEV.

I remember reading that PHEV also have a really low cost per kilometer maintenance cost, so it really does depend on your use case.

Agree fully with the first para. On costs per Km however I am not sure that PHEV is lower than ICE as you still require the full "traditional" maintenance plus the additional weight of a second engine would likely increase tyre wear so logically overall costs of a PHEV would be higher than ICE.