New ID3 disk brakes after 12k miles!

[OB1CCFC]

Hello All!

Had some brake judder on my 14 month old 1st Edition with 12,300 miles whilst returning home on the M1 over the weekend.
Took to garage and they have said both front disks are warped and need replacing, along with pads, not covered by warranty. £428!
I had a bit of an argument but they wouldn’t move so had them done today.
Spoke to the dealer technician and he said basically I was ‘driving too much in B mode’ which lets the disks corrode then warp….
tbh I’ve done a pretty good mix of driving in this car so am pretty astounded it needed new disks at this point.
Maybe VW are using cheaper disks?

[Bromsgroveuser]

Had the same problem six years ago on a VW Up at12000 miles, dealer insisted I pay so had it done and then wrote to the top man at VW UK after investigating they agreed it wasn't satisfactory and refunded my money so I suggest you give it a try

[monkeyhanger]

Hello All!

Had some brake judder on my 14 month old 1st Edition with 12,300 miles whilst returning home on the M1 over the weekend.
Took to garage and they have said both front disks are warped and need replacing, along with pads, not covered by warranty. £428!
I had a bit of an argument but they wouldn’t move so had them done today.
Spoke to the dealer technician and he said basically I was ‘driving too much in B mode’ which lets the disks corrode then warp….
tbh I’ve done a pretty good mix of driving in this car so am pretty astounded it needed new disks at this point.
Maybe VW are using cheaper disks?

I think the tech is talking crap there. Whether you're lifting off the throttle in B mode to slow, or pressing the brake pedal to slow (up to 0.25g) inD mode, the amount of regen is the same, with the same low reliance on the disks for light slowing down. I've only done 5k miles in 10 months and I've always been light on the brakes, even in my ICE cars, preferring to come off the throttle earlier and use less of the brakes. Never had warped discs yet - maybe I've been lucky.

I'd hazard a guess that your brakes have been binding a little, keeping the discs hot, then the parking brake has latched on.

[OB1CCFC]

I will write to VW.
More generally if ‘using regen too much causes disk failure after 12000 miles’ I’d expect to see it all over the internet for all EVs.
I haven’t.

[monkeyhanger]

I will write to VW.
More generally if ‘using regen too much causes disk failure after 12000 miles’ I’d expect to see it all over the internet for all EVs.
I haven’t.

My ID3 discs look better than I've been used to on a string of new VWs, my discs on a 2013 Golf GTD and 2015 Golf R were rusty as hell on delivery, and stayed rusty around the bells and edges of the discs.

[MotMot]

Mine after 10k miles and 8 months. Look brand new still!

[3twins]

Did the tech show you the discs? I had this happen twice with new cars a Citroen Xantia in 1995 at 6k this was caused by a sticking caliper overheating the disc. In 2002 I had a Seat Alhambra exhibiting brake judder at 10k. This was a manufacturing fault. One part of the disc was softer than the other and it had started to wear unevenly even though it was running true. The mechanic showed me the disc and how one part of it was thicker than the other when measured with a vernier caliper. On both occasions the dealers changed the discs and pads (and a caliper in the case of the Xantia) with no quibble.

[Daveion]

A pet hate of mine is technicians saying discs are warped. How about dodgy pads, contamination or even air in the system... although unusual.
A disc that has corrosion through little use will be stable unless faulty from day1and unlikely to be warped. The thing is if you replace the discs and pads and bleed the hydraulics all these possibilites are also eliminated.
The only true test of a warped disc is to clock it with a DTI on the car and see if its within tolerance.
Its so easy and throw away culture to say replace everything.
Bottom line is 12,000 miles is simply not fair wear and tear. If it were me I would argue this being a warranty job. I have had ICE cars on original discs up to 100,000 miles before they have reached minimum thickness without warping.

[OB1CCFC]

I have written to VW asking for a refund because this is unreasonable wear and cost, with copies of the dealer repair sheet and invoice - both state the discs were ‘warped’. I did argue it should be warranty but they just wouldn’t accept it.
I didn’t see the replaced discs, tbh I’m not that technical and I just needed a safe car to drive my family.
But the implication from the tech was it was my fault for driving in B mode too much.
I, for the last 6 months, have probably exclusively used B mode, but come on if it was such an issue it should be upfront in the manual.
I do think this dealership, Vertu in Skipton, lacks any depth of knowledge on EVs. I will look to Leeds or Harrogate in future.

[Daveion]

Good for you. Ask for the data on run-out measured with a DTI. That is what they should have done to state the disc is warped.

[ashmcmac]

Maybe slightly off topic as different manufacturers!!! But I had two Nissan env200 fully electric delivery vans . Constant stop start driving ( always in B mode ) they have both front and rear discs . No disc or pad changes at 65,000 miles . VW 12.000 miles sounds absolutely shocking .

[Sephiro]

A pet hate of mine is technicians saying discs are warped.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as warped discs on a road car are a myth as they don't get anywhere near hot enough and any tech that said that to me would lose all credibility. Given that the OP says that they are barely using the brakes I suspect this is most likely down to corrosion/uneven pad deposits building up on the disc and could have been resolved without replacing the brakes (either by repeated heavy braking without coming to a stop or if particularly severe by skimming the discs as if they aren't being used much they shouldn't be anywhere near minimum thickness).

[OB1CCFC]

A pet hate of mine is technicians saying discs are warped.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as warped discs on a road car are a myth as they don't get anywhere near hot enough and any tech that said that to me would lose all credibility. Given that the OP says that they are barely using the brakes I suspect this is most likely down to corrosion/uneven pad deposits building up on the disc and could have been resolved without replacing the brakes (either by repeated heavy braking without coming to a stop or if particularly severe by skimming the discs as if they aren't being used much they shouldn't be anywhere near minimum thickness).

I live in a hilly Yorkshire terrain so even though I use B as standard there is a need for some firm ‘physical braking’ most days.
The reason I took it in to the dealer is because on Sunday I was travelling at 70mph on the M1 and had to brake hard down to about 30mph, there was a very severe judder through the brakes and car body. It felt unsafe. I did another test off a slip road with similar effect.

[Daveion]

Was it very wet? Was it possible you felt the affect of ABS if you were breaking heavy. On other cars I have had you feel the ABS active through the break pedal and chassis.

[OB1CCFC]

Was it very wet? Was it possible you felt the affect of ABS if you were breaking heavy. On other cars I have had you feel the ABS active through the break pedal and chassis.

It was totally dry. A lovely day. Besides the brakes

[OB1CCFC]

I have had a further interaction with the dealer service manager, at Vertu Skipton. He is doubling down saying the issue was either ‘leaving the car too much causing corrosion ’ and/or ‘lack of physical braking’ ie. Too much B mode.
I have asked for the evidence of actual warping.
As a reminder I bought this car new in Dec 2021 and it has 12k miles.
Now I await any response from VW….

[monkeyhanger]

I have had a further interaction with the dealer service manager, at Vertu Skipton. He is doubling down saying the issue was either ‘leaving the car too much causing corrosion ’ and/or ‘lack of physical braking’ ie. Too much B mode.
I have asked for the evidence of actual warping.
As a reminder I bought this car new in Dec 2021 and it has 12k miles.
Now I await any response from VW….

They should've been able to demonstrate the fault on the discs removed - bet they're long gone now.

So to be clear, are they saying they're warped due to heating/clamping/cooling or had an uneven surface due to corrosion?

I personally think you'll get short shrift from VW UK in escalation.- they don't give a toss about customer service once you bought the car - they always take the dealership's word for it.

Your best chance was to get an independent opinion, get the remedial work done at an independent if the dealership didn't back down when faced with that (presumably) favourable second opinion and then take the supplying dealership to the small claims court for your costs, with that second opinion backing you up. Was Vertu Skipton the supplying dealership?

The supplying dealership is who you bought your car from and who your contract is with if the warranty coverage let's you down.

[OB1CCFC]

The dealer is now saying they weren’t actually warped but there was ‘a lot of corrosion and a very uneven surface’.
He ended up saying ‘ I would strongly recommend that you try to keep the disc cleaned with standard braking, not electric motor, as this could happen again’.
A different dealer supplied the car.
I also doubt I’ll hear back from VW but hey worth a try.

[monkeyhanger]

The dealer is now saying they weren’t actually warped but there was ‘a lot of corrosion and a very uneven surface’.
He ended up saying ‘ I would strongly recommend that you try to keep the disc cleaned with standard braking, not electric motor, as this could happen again’.
A different dealer supplied the car.
I also doubt I’ll hear back from VW but hey worth a try.

Do you have any documentation that confirms their original narrative of warped discs that they're now denying? Maybe on the schedule of works/invoice documentation?

Really struggling to understand how bad that surface corrosion could get on the faces that the pads contact, it would take almost no braking to scrub up whatever built up since the last journey, unless you're leaving the car for weeks at a time between uses and even then the rust tends to be on the surface rather than penetrative. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you got a stone trapped between pads and disc or had a loose caliper and they're that desperate for income, they've said your discs were buggered due to user error.

[OB1CCFC]

The invoice says ‘warped’ in multiple places.
They have now supplied a photo of one of the old discs…