The reason I / you decided on the ID.3

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
Dbaron
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:27 pm

Post by Dbaron »

When you look at the likes of Tesla and some Chinese brands they are building cars that cost less to build and use much more aluminium. Tesla cars have huge margins, much better than any VW. Why because their design and engineering is much better. It takes VW 30 hours to build an Id.3 compared to Tesla model 3 which is around 10 hours. They use aluminium alloy giga casting that replace 100's of parts. The cost to build a Tesla model 3 is less than what it costs a VW id.3



But here is my point. I know the VW isn't as well engineered as it could be. But I'm accepting of it. I'm sure VW will make vast improvements when they SSP platform.

OB1CCFC
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 am

Post by OB1CCFC »

monkeyhanger wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:27 pm
OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:12 pm Yeah 2270kg is maximum fully loaded ‘safe’ weight.
EV database says ID3 1805kg unladen.
As comparison a new Niro EV is 1757kg
Megane etech 1711kg
So there might be some room for improvement …
In the grand scheme of things, the whole car difference isn't a lot, we're talking 3-6%. Am I right in thinking that Kia use a slightly different battery chemistry to VW?
I take your point MH but in the end it’s still the weight of an extra passenger and in the fight for EV efficiency a few % is worth having.
The Renault battery is certainly thinner and lighter, I’m not sure about Kia I think they are quite ‘traditional’ re batteries.
Kia Niro EV3 in pearl white.
OB1CCFC
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 am

Post by OB1CCFC »

Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:28 pm When you look at the likes of Tesla and some Chinese brands they are building cars that cost less to build and use much more aluminium. Tesla cars have huge margins, much better than any VW. Why because their design and engineering is much better. It takes VW 30 hours to build an Id.3 compared to Tesla model 3 which is around 10 hours. They use aluminium alloy giga casting that replace 100's of parts. The cost to build a Tesla model 3 is less than what it costs a VW id.3



But here is my point. I know the VW isn't as well engineered as it could be. But I'm accepting of it. I'm sure VW will make vast improvements when they SSP platform.
Not sure I believe a lot of Munro says when it comes to Tesla comparisons tbh. He is very pro American in his outlook and there is a lot of spin around Tesla’s manufacturing capability.
As a car, I think ID3 is better hardware engineered than most Tesla’s. And in terms of design I am increasingly looking at Tesla’s and thinking they are starting to look old fashioned.
Kia Niro EV3 in pearl white.
sidehaas
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:04 am

Post by sidehaas »

The ID.3 drives very well, feels very solid and is not very inefficient. I'm a bit nonplussed with the suggestion that a priority should be to completely redesign the chassis to improve these things - that's probably the best thing about it. It generally handles its weight very well. They could improve it with better software and an option with a bit more power.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
Dbaron
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:27 pm

Post by Dbaron »

OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:13 pm
Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:28 pm When you look at the likes of Tesla and some Chinese brands they are building cars that cost less to build and use much more aluminium. Tesla cars have huge margins, much better than any VW. Why because their design and engineering is much better. It takes VW 30 hours to build an Id.3 compared to Tesla model 3 which is around 10 hours. They use aluminium alloy giga casting that replace 100's of parts. The cost to build a Tesla model 3 is less than what it costs a VW id.3



But here is my point. I know the VW isn't as well engineered as it could be. But I'm accepting of it. I'm sure VW will make vast improvements when they SSP platform.
Not sure I believe a lot of Munro says when it comes to Tesla comparisons tbh. He is very pro American in his outlook and there is a lot of spin around Tesla’s manufacturing capability.
As a car, I think ID3 is better hardware engineered than most Tesla’s. And in terms of design I am increasingly looking at Tesla’s and thinking they are starting to look old fashioned.
He's pro America for sure. But he is an engineer and uses data to back up his arguments. He's torn American companies like GM to shreds. I don't think he's likes Tesla without a good reason. He heavily criticized the original model 3, but praised the work Tesla did to fix shoddy build quality.

I guess on this forum there will be lots of VW fanboys were no matter what the VW products is, it's the best and can't be improved.
alex1337
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri May 27, 2022 8:04 am

Post by alex1337 »

Engineering of Teslas may be good but the build quality is known to be terrible at times. Granted they've not got as long history making cars as VW.
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Now cancelled for a Cupra Born V2 Vapor Grey arriving September 2022
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:12 pm Yeah 2270kg is maximum fully loaded ‘safe’ weight.
EV database says ID3 1805kg unladen.
As comparison a new Niro EV is 1757kg
Megane etech 1711kg
So there might be some room for improvement …
Sorry yes, I used the Fully loaded..
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:22 pm
OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:13 pm
Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:28 pm When you look at the likes of Tesla and some Chinese brands they are building cars that cost less to build and use much more aluminium. Tesla cars have huge margins, much better than any VW. Why because their design and engineering is much better. It takes VW 30 hours to build an Id.3 compared to Tesla model 3 which is around 10 hours. They use aluminium alloy giga casting that replace 100's of parts. The cost to build a Tesla model 3 is less than what it costs a VW id.3



But here is my point. I know the VW isn't as well engineered as it could be. But I'm accepting of it. I'm sure VW will make vast improvements when they SSP platform.
Not sure I believe a lot of Munro says when it comes to Tesla comparisons tbh. He is very pro American in his outlook and there is a lot of spin around Tesla’s manufacturing capability.
As a car, I think ID3 is better hardware engineered than most Tesla’s. And in terms of design I am increasingly looking at Tesla’s and thinking they are starting to look old fashioned.
He's pro America for sure. But he is an engineer and uses data to back up his arguments. He's torn American companies like GM to shreds. I don't think he's likes Tesla without a good reason. He heavily criticized the original model 3, but praised the work Tesla did to fix shoddy build quality.

I guess on this forum there will be lots of VW fanboys were no matter what the VW products is, it's the best and can't be improved.
I've watched a couple of his videos and they are poor, I struggle to take anything he says serious;ly, very typically American (if it's not done our way it's wrong).. "What's all these cross members for?" Yes I am pretty sure a huge lump of american pig iron like in an F150 would be enough. Probably more to do with the NCAP ratings an area where the US lags behind massively having only decided to introduce many pedestrian safety measures in 2022!

Suspension comments. Tesla has Double Wishbone (although it's been described by others as a freaky version) ID.4 has McPherson strut.. why's he trying to compare them? McPherson may be used on Japanese cars but it was originally used on the Good ole Mustang and incidentally perhaps he should do some reading up..

"Because MacPherson struts are packaged with a significant structure in the front crash structure of the car, it is easier to engineer cars that pass more stringent small overlap crashes with struts, as opposed to those with a double wishbone suspension. Notable examples include the Honda Accord and Civic, as well as the Mercedes E-Class, all of which adopted struts to improve crash performance. The overall simplicity of the design also means there are fewer joints in the suspension to wear, so there is less decline in handling and steering feel over time. Inverted monotube struts can also provide extra rigidity in the front suspension, as seen in the Porsche 911 GT3 and Cayman GT4, as well as the Subaru Impreza WRX STI. Finally, struts can package more efficiently than other types of front suspension, which allows for significant front cargo space in rear/mid-engined cars, such as the Porsche 911 and Boxster."

Not sure what his point was about the Drums other than missing the point of them supposedly being designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle with no servicing like every other early youtube expert reviewer and I gave up at that point.
monkeyhanger
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger »

I'm sure if VW could build a car in 1/3 of the time it does now, far cheaper than it does now as per those Giga casting comments, and not comoromise on the way it drives, they'd be on it like a seagull on seaside chips.

The drums take some criticism from everywhere. Do they realise that rear discs are just for show and stability rather than powerful braking? They're even less relevant for hard braking with the regen system.
Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

Audi S3 - because I hate rapid charging for long distance driving.

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OB1CCFC
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 am

Post by OB1CCFC »

The funniest part of this thread is some someone whose swallowed everything Tesla has ever spun suggesting this site has ‘VW fanboys’😂
Kia Niro EV3 in pearl white.
Dbaron
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:27 pm

Post by Dbaron »

monkeyhanger wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:46 pm I'm sure if VW could build a car in 1/3 of the time it does now, far cheaper than it does now as per those Giga casting comments, and not comoromise on the way it drives, they'd be on it like a seagull on seaside chips.

The drums take some criticism from everywhere. Do they realise that rear discs are just for show and stability rather than powerful braking? They're even less relevant for hard braking with the regen system.
Herbert Diess ex-CEO of VW group.
"Today, Tesla sets the standards here. They build the car around the software. Updates are already part of everyday life for Tesla customers.

We now come every 12 weeks with automatic updates for our ID. family – a big step for Volkswagen!
Congratulations to the team of Thomas Ulbrich and CARIAD for this milestone!

Tesla has long been appreciated for the software, range, and acceleration of its cars but has had problems with quality. The production was ridiculed. But our main competitor is learning fast. The quality is getting better, the customer feedback more positive.

And in Brandenburg, Tesla wants to build half a million cars with 7,000 people – direct and indirect. And with an impressive productivity: expected 90 units per hour in one line, 10 hours per car.

In Zwickau, we are at over 30 hours, we want to achieve 20 hours next year – we
originally started with a project target of 16 hours.

I don’t need to mention here what all this means on the stock market. Tesla has unlimited access to money and resources due to its high valuation. These numbers are what drive me to point out this new competition and not turn a blind eye.

Even if I stop talking about Elon Musk, he’s here to stay, revolutionizing our industry and quickly becoming more competitive.

The Tesla Model 3 was the best-selling car in Europe in September, ahead of the Golf. And this despite the fact that Tesla does not even build in Europe yet. Tesla only imports so far.

Only those who understand and have an eye on the competition can win. Tesla is the benchmark today, and other strong startups have entered our market from China.“

As for drum brakes.....yes they are fine, no issue with them.
Dbaron
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:27 pm

Post by Dbaron »

OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:50 pm The funniest part of this thread is some someone whose swallowed everything Tesla has ever spun suggesting this site has ‘VW fanboys’😂
I'm a fan of the id.3, that's why I bought one. In fact I really really like it. But I can also appreciate other products based on data.

A fanboy is someone who believes their object of affection = best ever, and isn't able separate their bias with reality. The source of the affection usually comes from ownership.

Seems like you are suffering ownership affection delusion.

The only posts I see from you are defending VW Id.3 to be the best ever.
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