Government axes PiCG

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andrewparker
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Post by andrewparker » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:04 am

With effect from today –

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/cons ... ate-effect

What's the situation with current orders that were eligible for the grant? Will this only apply to new orders from today, or will people who are waiting for their car face paying more?
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:18 am

https://www.speakev.com/threads/picg-to-end.170130/

According to people on here it's only for new orders so existing orders should be ok.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. OHME Home Pro charger.

Bengeo
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Post by Bengeo » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:20 am

It even covers orders made in the last 2 days where dealers haven't processed the grant claim:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/plug ... e-charging
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:21 pm

About time.
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OB1CCFC
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Post by OB1CCFC » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:25 pm

A shocking disincentive to moving to greener cars in a critical time period.
The government hardly mentions climate anymore, ministers were literally crying about the need for action a year ago.
Charlatans.
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gailjon
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Post by gailjon » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:35 pm

OB1CCFC wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:25 pm
A shocking disincentive to moving to greener cars in a critical time period.
The government hardly mentions climate anymore, ministers were literally crying about the need for action a year ago.
Charlatans.
What we need is definitely to give people able to afford above average costing cars some more tax payers money.

With the difficulties we have actually getting the cars I don't think any additional push from the government is needed. Perhaps the money if it goes towards the infrastructure will help with the issues that many people have charging the cars they already have.

Money from the taxpayer? Charlatans!
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:49 pm

OB1CCFC wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:25 pm
A shocking disincentive to moving to greener cars in a critical time period.
The government hardly mentions climate anymore, ministers were literally crying about the need for action a year ago.
Charlatans.

I'm of the opinion that the Government is focusing on reducing the number of cars on the road over time, by pricing many out of private motoring.

That said, I think a direct grant interferes with the market too much, and more indirect support is what's needed.

I believe the cost of a new vehicle will be rising and will continue to rise and increasingly will be a personal luxury rather than an individual right. I despair for what that may mean for rural communities, already desperately badly served for public transport.
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OB1CCFC
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Post by OB1CCFC » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:53 pm

gailjon wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:35 pm
OB1CCFC wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:25 pm
A shocking disincentive to moving to greener cars in a critical time period.
The government hardly mentions climate anymore, ministers were literally crying about the need for action a year ago.
Charlatans.
What we need is definitely to give people able to afford above average costing cars some more tax payers money.

With the difficulties we have actually getting the cars I don't think any additional push from the government is needed. Perhaps the money if it goes towards the infrastructure will help with the issues that many people have charging the cars they already have.

Money from the taxpayer? Charlatans!
Either you accept there is a climate crisis which needs urgent action or not. Pretty much all governments accept there is and have agreed to take action.
ie. the urgency means government action and not just ‘the market’ .
In terms of EV’s, price is a key blocker for people. Many other countries have decent subsidies to increasingly open up the EV market to more people but despite all the COP rhetoric we head in the opposite direction. Poor.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:41 pm

Price is a blocker to get into a £25k+ car for many people who are in tha habit of paying a lot less for a car - someone who normally buys a 6 year old Ford Focus for £9k is not going to buy a £30k car with a £3k effective discount via grant. Unless you want a 10 year old leaf with an effective 70 mile winter range, if you've got £10k to spend on an EV, you're not buying an EV. There's going to be no real choice for them until the likes of our ID3s are 6-8 years old an in their price range too. Meantime, the government hasn't yet worked out how the likes of us, currently paying a fraction of the fuel duty/VAT that we once were, will start paying our way on the roads again.

Given the crazy price of petrol/diesel right now, and the fact that dealers need give no discount to sell an EV in a matter of days, the government knows that for the people that can afford a new EV right now, losing the tiny PICG that was left is not a barrier to their ownership. They're following the same tact as the dealerships right now - why give an incentive to buy something that's selling like hot cakes?

Don't forget also, there's a decent size element that are quite willing to blow ID3 money on a Golf GTI instead, because they don't want an EV, or they don't have access to home charging, so running an EV will be a complete PITA and as expensive as running a diesel car if reliant on public fast chargers.

Its as simple as that
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andrewparker
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Post by andrewparker » Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:28 pm

We’re apparently now the only European market to have zero upfront purchase incentives.
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas » Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:52 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:41 pm
Price is a blocker to get into a £25k+ car for many people who are in tha habit of paying a lot less for a car - someone who normally buys a 6 year old Ford Focus for £9k is not going to buy a £30k car with a £3k effective discount via grant. Unless you want a 10 year old leaf with an effective 70 mile winter range, if you've got £10k to spend on an EV, you're not buying an EV. There's going to be no real choice for them until the likes of our ID3s are 6-8 years old an in their price range too. Meantime, the government hasn't yet worked out how the likes of us, currently paying a fraction of the fuel duty/VAT that we once were, will start paying our way on the roads again.

Given the crazy price of petrol/diesel right now, and the fact that dealers need give no discount to sell an EV in a matter of days, the government knows that for the people that can afford a new EV right now, losing the tiny PICG that was left is not a barrier to their ownership. They're following the same tact as the dealerships right now - why give an incentive to buy something that's selling like hot cakes?

Don't forget also, there's a decent size element that are quite willing to blow ID3 money on a Golf GTI instead, because they don't want an EV, or they don't have access to home charging, so running an EV will be a complete PITA and as expensive as running a diesel car if reliant on public fast chargers.

Its as simple as that
I agree with much of this, but I'd like to see some sort of help retained. Ideally a much larger (£10k+) grant made available only to people meeting a limited set of criteria (based on receiving certain benefits, or who are relatively low earners and need to drive for work. It could be combined with a scrappage scheme.) I accept that would all be difficult to make work fairly/affordably and it's probably anathema to our current government anyway. But we need to get more EVs on the road and we need to get them to people who can't otherwise afford them. We shouldn't really be paying a grant to people who can afford to spend £30k on a car.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. OHME Home Pro charger.

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:10 pm

Here’s a suggestion that would never get implemented - extend the eligibility criteria for key parts of the Motability scheme such that people on more benefits than just PIP etc can access an EV.

Government and Opposition both want to remove as many cars as possible from the road, for wildly varying ideological reasons. Whatever happens, direct grants aren’t returning because UK politicians of all colours don’t want them.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm

sidehaas wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:52 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:41 pm
Price is a blocker to get into a £25k+ car for many people who are in tha habit of paying a lot less for a car - someone who normally buys a 6 year old Ford Focus for £9k is not going to buy a £30k car with a £3k effective discount via grant. Unless you want a 10 year old leaf with an effective 70 mile winter range, if you've got £10k to spend on an EV, you're not buying an EV. There's going to be no real choice for them until the likes of our ID3s are 6-8 years old an in their price range too. Meantime, the government hasn't yet worked out how the likes of us, currently paying a fraction of the fuel duty/VAT that we once were, will start paying our way on the roads again.

Given the crazy price of petrol/diesel right now, and the fact that dealers need give no discount to sell an EV in a matter of days, the government knows that for the people that can afford a new EV right now, losing the tiny PICG that was left is not a barrier to their ownership. They're following the same tact as the dealerships right now - why give an incentive to buy something that's selling like hot cakes?

Don't forget also, there's a decent size element that are quite willing to blow ID3 money on a Golf GTI instead, because they don't want an EV, or they don't have access to home charging, so running an EV will be a complete PITA and as expensive as running a diesel car if reliant on public fast chargers.

Its as simple as that
I agree with much of this, but I'd like to see some sort of help retained. Ideally a much larger (£10k+) grant made available only to people meeting a limited set of criteria (based on receiving certain benefits, or who are relatively low earners and need to drive for work. It could be combined with a scrappage scheme.) I accept that would all be difficult to make work fairly/affordably and it's probably anathema to our current government anyway. But we need to get more EVs on the road and we need to get them to people who can't otherwise afford them. We shouldn't really be paying a grant to people who can afford to spend £30k on a car.
Great in principle, but how do you stop those people taking advantage of a £10k grant and flipping the car for potentially £10k in their back pocket at a time when 1 year old cars are fetching around RRP? Subsidised rental would be able to mitigate that risk.
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Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:32 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
sidehaas wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:52 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:41 pm
Price is a blocker to get into a £25k+ car for many people who are in tha habit of paying a lot less for a car - someone who normally buys a 6 year old Ford Focus for £9k is not going to buy a £30k car with a £3k effective discount via grant. Unless you want a 10 year old leaf with an effective 70 mile winter range, if you've got £10k to spend on an EV, you're not buying an EV. There's going to be no real choice for them until the likes of our ID3s are 6-8 years old an in their price range too. Meantime, the government hasn't yet worked out how the likes of us, currently paying a fraction of the fuel duty/VAT that we once were, will start paying our way on the roads again.

Given the crazy price of petrol/diesel right now, and the fact that dealers need give no discount to sell an EV in a matter of days, the government knows that for the people that can afford a new EV right now, losing the tiny PICG that was left is not a barrier to their ownership. They're following the same tact as the dealerships right now - why give an incentive to buy something that's selling like hot cakes?

Don't forget also, there's a decent size element that are quite willing to blow ID3 money on a Golf GTI instead, because they don't want an EV, or they don't have access to home charging, so running an EV will be a complete PITA and as expensive as running a diesel car if reliant on public fast chargers.

Its as simple as that
I agree with much of this, but I'd like to see some sort of help retained. Ideally a much larger (£10k+) grant made available only to people meeting a limited set of criteria (based on receiving certain benefits, or who are relatively low earners and need to drive for work. It could be combined with a scrappage scheme.) I accept that would all be difficult to make work fairly/affordably and it's probably anathema to our current government anyway. But we need to get more EVs on the road and we need to get them to people who can't otherwise afford them. We shouldn't really be paying a grant to people who can afford to spend £30k on a car.
Great in principle, but how do you stop those people taking advantage of a £10k grant and flipping the car for potentially £10k in their back pocket at a time when 1 year old cars are fetching around RRP? Subsidised rental would be able to mitigate that risk.
I like the idea that by giving a big grant you are also doing a bit of wealth redistribution because they can take advantage of the real value when they come to sell.
To me, that is what might make such a car affordable at £20k for people who would normally never spend more than £10k, so I don't mind them selling it on. Off course what we don't want environmentally is for them to flip it straight away and buy a Golf GTI with the proceeds... I don't know how you'd manage that. But if fuel costs keep going up, I doubt many people would.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. OHME Home Pro charger.

MattgID3
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Post by MattgID3 » Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:41 am

sidehaas wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:18 am
https://www.speakev.com/threads/picg-to-end.170130/

According to people on here it's only for new orders so existing orders should be ok.
This link suggests its scrapped for new orders and not existing ones
https://inews.co.uk/news/plug-in-car-gr ... uk-1685323

"The grant has now closed to new orders from Tuesday June 14.

However, ministers have said all existing applications for the grant will continue to be honoured.

Where a car has been sold in the two working days before the announcement, but an application for the grant from dealerships has not yet been made, the sale will also still qualify for the grant.
"
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Stonewash blue
Ordered 8/8/21
Eta 8th Nov 2022

Location South Gloucestershire

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