Keyless Entry - Safety Issues

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Braddad9
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:38 pm

Post by Braddad9 »

Hey everyone,

Just a quick one for others who may or may not have come across this. Before getting the id3 I created a keys area near my front door (but away and hidden so it’s not easily found if anyone breaks in) to make it easier to drop the keys when I get back or pick up on the way out. Always in one place, never lost!

However, I now have the issue that it is too close to the car and the keyless entry will work with the keys on the key rack.
Now obviously, they couldn’t start the car without the keys (not sure if you can Hotwire it or how hard that is, I haven’t seen it talked about for a long time to be honest) but you can still open the door and take anything that is in there.

So I am now looking at other options for my keys in the house, because I love keyless entry and don’t want to disable it to be honest!

Just thought I would write it up, in case anyone else does similar and hasn’t noticed. If there is a red light flashing on your key, you are close enough for keyless entry I think.
ID3 Max Pro Performance - Scale Silver
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Delivery scheduled - 18 May 2022

Bigd0205
Posts: 86
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Post by Bigd0205 »

On my current, non-vw, car you can disable the keyless entry feature by double clicking the lock button.(VW will have a similar feature) Pretty sure it was done as an added feature following the spate of car thefts where people could pick up the keyless RFID tag and clone it from outside your home and their device would pretend to be your car key. Only way to properly do it would be to add some kind of RFID blocking material to where you store your keys

Full demo here:


Amazon/Halfords/Argos etc have RFID blocking Boxes/Faraday boxes that might be what you need!
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craig
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Post by craig »

key goes to sleep if not moved for a short time
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

Just having the key in range inside your front door will not allow the car to be opened. The ID3 has some sort of motion/position sensor as well as RFID to provide more security. If the key isn't where the car thinks it should be when you try to open a door, it won't open. I have trialled this with mine (Family, but afaik all keyless entry cars will be similar). If you put your keys down on the floor a few feet away and try to open the door, it won't open. You can even put them on the roof of the car, if not near the door you are opening, and the door still won't unlock. You need to have the keys in approximately the position the car expects, ie on your person. Try it out if unsure.

I should clarify I do not use 'unlock on approach '. I would find this really annoying as I walk past my car on the driveway more often than I go to get in it.
Last edited by sidehaas on Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

billybobb2019
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:01 am

Post by billybobb2019 »

If I am truly honest I do like the keyless entry but I am very wary about it, I have locked the car after getting out a bit between me walking from the car to my house which is only a very short distance the car has unlocked itself again thinking I was walking up to it, I do know that in these situations the car will lock itself again if you don't interact with it such as opening the door, but after realising the car had been left open all night on one occasion because of this I now have got into the habit of checking movies are attracted so I know the car is locked before I go to bed. Maybe my car is just a little bit oversensitive but I bought an RFID pouch to put the keys in just in case.
billybobb2019
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Post by billybobb2019 »

wing mirrors are retracted - apologies i use voice dictation and its as reliable as v2 software
rwh202
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 3:19 pm

Post by rwh202 »

Aren't there 2 modes to 'keyless':

1. 'Auto unlock' where the car unlocks as you approach the car with the key (and I assume lock as you walk far enough away?). We don't use this.

2. Normal 'keyless' where you just grab a door handle with the key in your pocket / bag and it unlocks. Unless the key is right next to the correct door, it won't unlock. Touch the outside of handle to lock.

Ideally, I'd want it to auto lock whenever the key wanders out of range because it will happily sit unlocked all night if you forget (or if the key stays in range with auto unlock) as per 1., but require being right next to a door to unlock with the handle like 2..

For the OP, I'd second (third) the suggestion for a RFID faraday cage to 'hide' the key from the car so it locks automatically.

Oh, and whilst I'm moaning about the locking logic, I'd like it to not happily lock your keys in the boot...
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Big277wave
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Post by Big277wave »

I've turned off the proximity un-locking of the car and just use the contact with the inside of the door handles to unlock and outside to lock. My parking space is close to the front of our house and with an armchair near to the front wall, I wasn't confident that the car would remain locked when I was inside the house.
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TheMack
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Post by TheMack »

I myself was also cautious and despite being technically savvy (at least as far as PC's go) had no problems getting a car with keyless entry and start stop.

My answer is a faraday pouch. We got one from Amazon at a cost of just £5, but it was the highest scored one on which, and having got it and tested it ourselves it is brilliant.

Once we put the keys in the pouch and close it all signals are blocked. I have even stood next to the door and placed the pouch up to the door, and nothing, the car will not open.

Here is the link, I am not saying you NEED it, but for peace of mind its worth it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
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Nick1892
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Post by Nick1892 »

I bought the same ones and would highly recommend them.
MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

You don’t need a faraday pouch as the key ‘sleeps’ if motionless. Relay attacks need the key to be ‘awake’.
gailjon
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Post by gailjon »

MotMot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:37 pm You don’t need a faraday pouch as the key ‘sleeps’ if motionless. Relay attacks need the key to be ‘awake’.
Don't worry, no one will listen to you.
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mediaguy
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Post by mediaguy »

gailjon wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:36 am
MotMot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:37 pm You don’t need a faraday pouch as the key ‘sleeps’ if motionless. Relay attacks need the key to be ‘awake’.
Don't worry, no one will listen to you.
There is a contradiction in this forum through.

We've said both that

a) you can't lock yourself out of the car by leaving the keys in the boot as the new nearfield technology allows the car to know that the keys are in the boot
b) new keys disable when not moving so they cannot be read

I don't think both of those things can be true. I presume they do not go to sleep, but if they are working they also should not unlock the car anywhere but right next to the door.
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Big277wave
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Post by Big277wave »

The keys go to sleep after they have been inactive for a few minutes, so that would cover most cases of trying to lock the car after the key has miss-advertently been left in the boot as it would still be active for a few minutes.
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gailjon
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Post by gailjon »

It is amazing how far we have come with key technology. Long gone are the days of leaning over to physically unlock the door handles from the inside to let passengers in, etc.
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Gwyver
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Post by Gwyver »

gailjon wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:44 am It is amazing how far we have come with key technology. Long gone are the days of leaning over to physically unlock the door handles from the inside to let passengers in, etc.
If you have 'Unlock' = 'one side' in the Vehicle Settings (exterior) menu, you'll still have to lean over and pull the passenger door handle :)
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Splitty
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Post by Splitty »

mediaguy wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:58 am
gailjon wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:36 am
MotMot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:37 pm You don’t need a faraday pouch as the key ‘sleeps’ if motionless. Relay attacks need the key to be ‘awake’.
Don't worry, no one will listen to you.
There is a contradiction in this forum through.

We've said both that

a) you can't lock yourself out of the car by leaving the keys in the boot as the new nearfield technology allows the car to know that the keys are in the boot
b) new keys disable when not moving so they cannot be read

I don't think both of those things can be true. I presume they do not go to sleep, but if they are working they also should not unlock the car anywhere but right next to the door.
You can definitely lock yourself out by leaving the keys in the boot. Been there and have the T-shirt
Braddad9
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:38 pm

Post by Braddad9 »

Thanks for the replies guys, I worked out that my original issue came because I put the keys down, then went outside and opened the door. The keys were still active so I could open and was concerned.

The keys do “lock” when they go inactive, so I can sleep a little bit better now knowing that they can’t be seen if the door is open.
ID3 Max Pro Performance - Scale Silver
Order: 3140****
Original ETA - Late April/Early May
Delivery scheduled - 18 May 2022
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

Braddad9 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:29 pm Thanks for the replies guys, I worked out that my original issue came because I put the keys down, then went outside and opened the door. The keys were still active so I could open and was concerned.

The keys do “lock” when they go inactive, so I can sleep a little bit better now knowing that they can’t be seen if the door is open.
That definitely shouldn't happen anyway so very strange (see G43FAN and my posts)
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
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