Functional equivalent of engine braking

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
Post Reply
yacoob
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:37 pm

Post by yacoob »

For the context: I'm waiting for my ID3 to arrive, and I've only test driven ID3 in a flat area :)

I've been driving back from a hilly area in my current ICE car, and I've started to wonder - can you get the functional equivalent of engine braking on an ID3? For an ICE car, I'd keep the gear low, which would give me a fixed cap on the speed, at the cost of the engine whine. In ID3, I can switch to B and take the foot off the accelerator - but the immediate question is, how does gravity and energy recuperation balance themselves out? How much would ID3 slow down on a declining slope? I've seen in the manual that there's a speed limiter functionality - would that help here?

All of those questions would be easy to answer by testing - but for the moment I have nothing to test with, so I'd like to tap into your practical experience :D

Thanks!

AlistairL
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:37 am

Post by AlistairL »

The regen in B mode on the ID.3 isn't as extreme as some other EVs but "it depends" - bearing in mind that there may be even more regen when you touch the "brake" pedal. The speed limiter is more like you would have with a cruise control on an automatic going down a hill. As all hills vary, as does the mass of the vehicle carrying a load then your equilibrium will vary.

Brakes are still there for slowing down and as with engine braking one would balance one's mechanical sympathy with a particular technique - as my driving coaches pointed out, brake friction material is one of the cheaper components to replace on a car ;)

I found myself in the opposite situation to you - I collected the ID.3 at the top of the hill in Durham and our hotel was by the river, so I learned all about B mode in the first 10 minutes of driving!
ID.3 Life Pro Performance
Glacier White & East Derry Wheels
Ordered 17th March 2022
Build Week 10
Collected from Western Volkswagen Fort Kinnaird on 01 April 2023
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

B mode would be the most like ICE engine braking but unless you use ACC or press the accelerator it will bring you to an almost stop.
D mode should allow coasting and therefore to get any 'engine braking effect' you would need to press the brake, unless you use ACC or the car picks up some hazard and feels it needs to slow.

Will take you a short amount of time to work out the difference and make a choice.
sidehaas
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:04 am

Post by sidehaas »

B mode regen is much stronger than engine braking.
In D mode with eco or comfort mode it coasts; with sport mode on you get constant regen but less than in B mode - this is probably the ID3 driving mode that is most akin to engine braking when you switch down a gear in ICE. (If you hit the brake in any D mode it will maximise regen before using the friction brakes).
More usefully for a situation like descending a hill though, you just put ACC on and it will hold your speed constant all the way, regening as it goes.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
yacoob
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:37 pm

Post by yacoob »

Thanks for the answers so far! Completely forgot about ACC, primarily because the car I'm driving right now is old enough not to have a thing like that :) If I were to stick to modulating brakes - can you spot the threshold above which the car switches to "actual friction brakes engaged now"? :)
sidehaas
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:04 am

Post by sidehaas »

yacoob wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:26 pm Thanks for the answers so far! Completely forgot about ACC, primarily because the car I'm driving right now is old enough not to have a thing like that :) If I were to stick to modulating brakes - can you spot the threshold above which the car switches to "actual friction brakes engaged now"? :)
Yes, there is a green bar giving you a live regen indicator. When you continue braking beyond a full bar you are using the friction brakes.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

sidehaas wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:13 pm B mode regen is much stronger than engine braking.
In D mode with eco or comfort mode it coasts; with sport mode on you get constant regen but less than in B mode - this is probably the ID3 driving mode that is most akin to engine braking when you switch down a gear in ICE. (If you hit the brake in any D mode it will maximise regen before using the friction brakes).
More usefully for a situation like descending a hill though, you just put ACC on and it will hold your speed constant all the way, regening as it goes.
Completley depends on what you are used to, take your foot of the accelerator in a diesel defender in low ratio and it's like hitting a brick wall.. Engine braking varies quite a lot.
AlistairL
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:37 am

Post by AlistairL »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:31 am
sidehaas wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:13 pm B mode regen is much stronger than engine braking.
In D mode with eco or comfort mode it coasts; with sport mode on you get constant regen but less than in B mode - this is probably the ID3 driving mode that is most akin to engine braking when you switch down a gear in ICE. (If you hit the brake in any D mode it will maximise regen before using the friction brakes).
More usefully for a situation like descending a hill though, you just put ACC on and it will hold your speed constant all the way, regening as it goes.
Completley depends on what you are used to, take your foot of the accelerator in a diesel defender in low ratio and it's like hitting a brick wall.. Engine braking varies quite a lot.
With you there - my other vehicle is a 2 cylinder BMW Motorbike - roll off the throttle too early and you stop before the turn you were hoping for.
ID.3 Life Pro Performance
Glacier White & East Derry Wheels
Ordered 17th March 2022
Build Week 10
Collected from Western Volkswagen Fort Kinnaird on 01 April 2023
sidehaas
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:04 am

Post by sidehaas »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:31 am
sidehaas wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:13 pm B mode regen is much stronger than engine braking.
In D mode with eco or comfort mode it coasts; with sport mode on you get constant regen but less than in B mode - this is probably the ID3 driving mode that is most akin to engine braking when you switch down a gear in ICE. (If you hit the brake in any D mode it will maximise regen before using the friction brakes).
More usefully for a situation like descending a hill though, you just put ACC on and it will hold your speed constant all the way, regening as it goes.
Completley depends on what you are used to, take your foot of the accelerator in a diesel defender in low ratio and it's like hitting a brick wall.. Engine braking varies quite a lot.
Ok, I can't argue with that but for the OP's benefit, lifting off completely in B mode in an ID3 will slow you down faster than lifting off in a Golf or equivalent in one gear down from normal would (eg in 3rd at 30-40).
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
AlistairL
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:37 am

Post by AlistairL »

sidehaas wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:38 am
G43FAN wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:31 am
sidehaas wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:13 pm B mode regen is much stronger than engine braking.
In D mode with eco or comfort mode it coasts; with sport mode on you get constant regen but less than in B mode - this is probably the ID3 driving mode that is most akin to engine braking when you switch down a gear in ICE. (If you hit the brake in any D mode it will maximise regen before using the friction brakes).
More usefully for a situation like descending a hill though, you just put ACC on and it will hold your speed constant all the way, regening as it goes.
Completley depends on what you are used to, take your foot of the accelerator in a diesel defender in low ratio and it's like hitting a brick wall.. Engine braking varies quite a lot.
Ok, I can't argue with that but for the OP's benefit, lifting off completely in B mode in an ID3 will slow you down faster than lifting off in a Golf or equivalent in one gear down from normal would (eg in 3rd at 30-40).
The 7 speed DSG on my Golf is interesting - it does a relatively good job of trying to work out when you want engine braking but it will coast most times it gets the opportunity, meaning it will speed up down hill unless I touch the brake pedal (or ask it for a specific gear).
ID.3 Life Pro Performance
Glacier White & East Derry Wheels
Ordered 17th March 2022
Build Week 10
Collected from Western Volkswagen Fort Kinnaird on 01 April 2023
s9bl
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:06 pm

Post by s9bl »

Having switched to an EV back in March, I can't say that I miss engine braking. I've always seen it as a side effect of how engines function more than a feature, which can be useful in some cases to avoid friction brake wear, brake fade or wasting fuel. But given (most) EVs regen when you brake, there's little need to worry about wear or efficiency, and you can just keep your foot on the brake pedal as you go downhill, or just use ACC.
Max, Glacier White, MY23, Software 3.2
Post Reply