Charger installation for garage and driveway

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MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

Hi. As I wait for my ID3 to magically appear, I'm planning where to position my charger. Sometimes I'll want to garage the car (very hot or cold weather) whilst other times I expect it will just sit on the driveway. I'm therefore trying to hedge my bets and position the charger so it can handle either situation, by placing it on the garage inside wall, but far enough forward towards the door so it will make it under the garage door for when I'm charging outside.

However, I want to avoid having to run the lead under the door if possible - not least because it's a Hormann sectional electric door which has a nice squashy rubber strip along the bottom which seals the garage nicely, stopping mice from coming in. If it dropped onto the cable then there would be a gap either side of the cable entry point as the rubber was pinched, allowing ingress.

So I'm picturing a 2-way isolator switch on the output side of the charger, with one output going to an in-garage Type-2 trailing lead, and the other output going to another such socket on a trailing lead which is poked through the (brick) garage wall, ready for external charging. I'd then label the switch positions 'Internal' and 'External' and just flick the switch over as required from within the garage. I'd not switchover mid-charge, but the ability to direct the charge to either of 2 sockets would be useful.

I'm reasonably electric-competent (rewired a house many years ago). Assuming all poles are switched over, does anyone see a problem with this? Anyone done anything similar?
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Repfigit
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Post by Repfigit »

Could you not just install a notch for the cable somewhere else along the edge of the garage door? If it's above the ground, you presumably won't have to worry about mice getting in. It would allow you to have a totally standard charger and not do anything to it which could void the warranty. EVSEs have to be installed carefully because they are outdoors and exposed to the elements while probably being the main current draw in your house. Wiring in an oven that doesn't move and is safely in your kitchen isn't quite as risky even if can have the same 32A max current.
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Turquoise
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Post by Turquoise »

Installing a charger needs a dedicated circuit and RCD, which is notifiable to building control, so unless you're a registered electrician then you can't do it yourself. For the warranty to be valid the charger will need to be installed by someone certified by the manufacturer in a lot of cases too. So this is a question for whichever sparky you get to do the install.
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MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

It's a composite / insulated door with a metal sealed frame all round. It's a fantastic door really. You'd struggle to wedge a credit card between the door and the frame TBH, let alone a thick cable. I'll add a photo to show what I mean. I could always cut a hole in the rubber strip along the bottom I guess but it's a bit rubbish plus then I've ruined the seal for when I'm not needing the external connector. It's also a bit of a faff to ensure the cable is in the correct location as the door drops down onto it with its cutout hole.

I reckon the 2-way isolator should work fine and be perfectly safe. The EVSE might throw a paddy if I switchover mid-charge which I wouldn't do. Just feels over complicated though. I read somewhere someone had installed a cat flap through their garage wall, through which they could thread the cable for when charging outside, but they had a timber frame garage (USA) whereas mine is double cavity brick & block - plus it would look a bit of a mess I think.

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Post by steviebabes »

The output from the 'charger' is not just a simple L/N/E as for a cooker. There are data connections too so these would also need switching over. I think the only way you could do it is wire another type 2 socket in parallel in a waterproof case from the back of the chargers type 2 socket. The cable would have to be multicore like your charging cable. I'm sure there would be a minefield of regulations to pass though, not to mention voiding your chargers warranty.
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Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

My garage door isn’t as posh as yours, but I had the same issue. I chiselled a small divot out of the concrete garage floor. Haven’t had any rodents yet in nearly a year. Mind you, they probably wouldn’t use the front door.
MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

Some good responses - thanks to all.

@Turquoise: It's OK I'm not going anywhere near the wiring between my incoming supply and the EVSE itself. Earthing and protection knowledge is outside my league and I'll be leaving that to the installer to sort out. I'm just discussing here the tethered lead from the EVSE to the car. Pretty sure replacing one of these if it got damaged is within the rules of a competent DIY'er and that's pretty much all I'd be doing (albeit splitting out to 2 via an external isolator).

@stevebabies: I need to double check but it looks to me that it's just the usual L/N/E plus perhaps 1 more core. I figured the data comms would pass via the L & N (multiplexed over the top) a bit like a PowerLine extender. I'll check further. The idea of connecting them in parallel would be dangerous because once the comms were established between EVSE and the car, the circuit would go live meaning that (spare) connector would be live also. It would need to be one connector or the other to be safe.

@Scratch: Simple is best for sure, and gouging a bit of concrete out like you suggest might well be the best option. If the mice come in I can always put something in to fill it too with a wedge I can remove whenever I want to run it outside. I'm warming to that idea..
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MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

Just to add also that I think the earthing regs require a different approach if the car is to be charged outside (I've read somewhere about requiring a reference earth rod), so I'll discuss with the installer so he's aware that my internal EVSE might extend to outside. That all said, I'll discuss any wiring mods with him also and gauge the look of panic on his face as to whether I proceed. The problem is you never know what you don't know etc!! Thanks all and I'll proceed with great caution. Will report back when the installer comes to discuss.
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Raxacorico
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Post by Raxacorico »

Yes, I had a neighbour help chisel a grove into the tarmac slope outside the garage. This allows me to close the garage 'up & over' door (but it was never a good enough seal to prevent mice/voles getting in!) I never park inside the garage (or intend to) but I prefer the charger inside the garage for the sake of the look.
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Post by Turquoise »

MattBCL wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:49 pm Just to add also that I think the earthing regs require a different approach if the car is to be charged outside (I've read somewhere about requiring a reference earth rod), so I'll discuss with the installer so he's aware that my internal EVSE might extend to outside. That all said, I'll discuss any wiring mods with him also and gauge the look of panic on his face as to whether I proceed. The problem is you never know what you don't know etc!! Thanks all and I'll proceed with great caution. Will report back when the installer comes to discuss.
I think the earthing rod is dependent on the charger... My Zappi is outside and didn't need one but I remember when I looked around before decided on it that some models would have required one.
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Splitty
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Post by Splitty »

A simple solution would be to buy a male and a female type 2 socket and drill a hole through the door pillar. Then when you wanted to charge outside you could use the cable supplied by VW to connect the car to the outside socket and plug the charger cable into the inside plug. You would need a sparky to wire up the 4 core cable. The data is passed over a single wire and it is very a crude system relying on resistor values to indicate charge status and charge availability
MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

@Splitty, that's a cracking idea.. and I can't see it upsetting anyone from an Electric regs viewpoint either - it's just a very short extension lead in effect, from the inner wall to the outer wall of my garage but made up on-site so I could thread it through the hole before connecting it up. I reckon that's a winner.. although the 'groove in the floor' idea will be cheaper and arguably even less visible, which (like @Raxacorico above) is also a factor for me.

Thanks also for clarifying the purpose of the 4th core. I'm amazed it's as simplistic as this; you'd think it would be a digital handshake sort of thing..

[Edit] - does the Type-2 cable that you stow in the boot come as standard with the ID.3 or do we have to buy it separately?
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Alongwait
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Post by Alongwait »

MattBCL wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:05 pm @Splitty, that's a cracking idea.. and I can't see it upsetting anyone from an Electric regs viewpoint either - it's just a very short extension lead in effect, from the inner wall to the outer wall of my garage but made up on-site so I could thread it through the hole before connecting it up. I reckon that's a winner.. although the 'groove in the floor' idea will be cheaper and arguably even less visible, which (like @Raxacorico above) is also a factor for me.

Thanks also for clarifying the purpose of the 4th core. I'm amazed it's as simplistic as this; you'd think it would be a digital handshake sort of thing..

[Edit] - does the Type-2 cable that you stow in the boot come as standard with the ID.3 or do we have to buy it separately?
I believe one set of type 2 cable come with the car.
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DickieBoy
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Post by DickieBoy »

I thought I had read that you can't get type 2 extension leads. Or at least it's advised against. Sounds like what you're proposing would effectivity be such but I might be misunderstanding.
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MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

@DickieBoy - your assumption is correct, but the length would only be from the inner to the outer skin of the wall, so perhaps 30cm at most. However it would have to be made up in-situ and then crimped otherwise I'd need a hole big enough to shove the connector through which wouldn't really work. I guess my next step is to see if I can get the connectors and crimping tool. There is a concern I suppose that the resistance in the crimped connections might be relatively high if I mess one up, which would lead to heat buildup and failure/fire. I'll see what the installer can do.
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baguette
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Post by baguette »

MattBCL wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:51 pm your assumption is correct, but the length would only be from the inner to the outer skin of the wall, so perhaps 30cm at most.

Except you are then adding on the entire length of the exterior Type 2 cable to the length of the cable built in to the charger, so it effectively does become a rather long extension cable (with four resistance-adding connectors to boot). But I reckon it would still work. Might want to consider testing the setup externally before drilling any holes.
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Post by Alongwait »

Splitty wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:42 pm A simple solution would be to buy a male and a female type 2 socket and drill a hole through the door pillar. Then when you wanted to charge outside you could use the cable supplied by VW to connect the car to the outside socket and plug the charger cable into the inside plug. You would need a sparky to wire up the 4 core cable. The data is passed over a single wire and it is very a crude system relying on resistor values to indicate charge status and charge availability
Or is it easier to have a flap (similar to letter box but bigger) through the door pillar which allow the charging cable from the wall charger to go through to the car, you may require a long cable from the charger for charging when the car is outside, but it stop the messing about on extension etc. as the charging cable simply pass through a flap on the door pillar to the car.
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MattBCL
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Post by MattBCL »

@Alongwait: see photo of my door above. There’s no door pillar really and what little frame there is, is metal (though it looks like wood). I caught up with the installation guy today and mentioned the through-wall extension idea and it was met with a “Indra don’t recommend extensions” response. In other words, “we’ll be fitting the charger and that’s all”. Lots of options though from everyone here. I just need to pick one.
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Post by G43FAN »

Untethered charger and 2 x Type 2 Cables? ! permanently wired through the wall and the other for inside, just swap over at the charger?
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Post by smyth1492 »

MattBCL wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:33 am Hi. As I wait for my ID3 to magically appear, I'm planning where to position my charger. Sometimes I'll want to garage the car (very hot or cold weather) whilst other times I expect it will just sit on the driveway. I'm therefore trying to hedge my bets and position the charger so it can handle either situation, by placing it on the garage inside wall, but far enough forward towards the door so it will make it under the garage door for when I'm charging outside.

However, I want to avoid having to run the lead under the door if possible - not least because it's a Hormann sectional electric door which has a nice squashy rubber strip along the bottom which seals the garage nicely, stopping mice from coming in. If it dropped onto the cable then there would be a gap either side of the cable entry point as the rubber was pinched, allowing ingress.

So I'm picturing a 2-way isolator switch on the output side of the charger, with one output going to an in-garage Type-2 trailing lead, and the other output going to another such socket on a trailing lead which is poked through the (brick) garage wall, ready for external charging. I'd then label the switch positions 'Internal' and 'External' and just flick the switch over as required from within the garage. I'd not switchover mid-charge, but the ability to direct the charge to either of 2 sockets would be useful.

I'm reasonably electric-competent (rewired a house many years ago). Assuming all poles are switched over, does anyone see a problem with this? Anyone done anything similar?
Have the charger fitted near the back of the garage and aim to have the car in the garage almost all the time, we put our car in the garage at the end of the day if we don't need it. No worries about starting it like a ICE just to put it in the garage. If the car is wet leave the door open an inch or so for the breeze to get in the garage. If you must leave it outside then leave the door open and inch or so so that the cable can go underneath.
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