Motorway speed power consumption

[id73]

Just got back from a 290 mile trip from London to Lizard in Cornwall.
We took the ID3 and the Tesla Model 3 as hotel had 2 destination chargers.

Interestingly both cars required 1 stop.
The Tesla needed a 15 min charge and the ID3 needed a 50 min charge.

The Tesla felt like it could have done the whole journey without stopping if driven carefully and the ID3 needed some careful (slow) driving to make it with one stop.

Overall I was impressed with the ID3 but a one stop strategy gave a bit of range anxiety whereas the Tesla felt much more reassured range wise.

I’d say the main difference in experience on our first long journey was the availability of chargers.
The Tesla supercharging site had around 16 chargers of which 4 were occupied when arrived at lunch time whereas the 3 public chargers for ID3 were all occupied and we had to wait 35 mins for one to become available and then it stopped working requiring us to call BP Pulse for them to reset the machine remotely.

We had a similar experience on the way back. Tesla seemless charging experience, ID3 a bit fraught as some selfish tattooed oik decided to leave his Audi charging at 100% for an extended period whilst he stuffed his face eating with his family whilst we waited for him to release his spot. Tesla charge penalty idling fees for doing this so people don’t do it, whereas no such incentive for good behaviour seems to exist on non-Tesla public chargers.

Not a great first experience with ID3 public charging and much more stressful than the Tesla supercharger experience but as we do this sort of trip only once or twice a year it’s not a deal breaker for the ID3 and on the whole we still love it!

[monkeyhanger]

That scenario is only going to get worse while EV car sales grow much faster than the number of charging points.

A penalty like you describe for Tesla would need to be in pkace to discourage idle hogging of the charger e.g. 30p per kWh while charging and then start charging (money) again at perhaps 5-10p per minute after 5 minutes grace when the charger is supplying no electricity but is connected.

But do you go further than that? Should rapid chargers only be for rapid charging e.g. get to 80% and then get off because that other 20% to 100% is going to take an age? Or maybe you're only allowed on for 30 mins?

[id73]

sadly i think the mentaility of charging to 100% on public chargers is still quite pervasive.
as you say this is madness as the r.o.c drop dramatically for the fnal 20% or so
In most cases its just some sort of irrational manifestatio of range anxiety or its just downright anti-social
it might also make sense to charge people a higher rate as the r.o.c drops so it would really make people think about how much they really need that last x% charge as it would cost them exponentially more
charging costs really need to be based on some sort of composite between energy transfer and crucially time spent on the charger.
that would sharpen peoples minds a bit and get them to do the right thing..

[colonelpurple]

I personally think that people can charge to what they want. I would have no idea if that person is doing another 200miles and needs 100%. Leaving a car in a charging bay without charging is not acceptable, but going to 100% is a personal choice. Its not his fault its the fact there are not enough EV chargers

[OllyExeterID3]

I personally think that people can charge to what they want. I would have no idea if that person is doing another 200miles and needs 100%. Leaving a car in a charging bay without charging is not acceptable, but going to 100% is a personal choice. Its not his fault its the fact there are not enough EV chargers

I must admit I agree with you here - our old i3 would get us home from Gloucester but only with a full charge - we needed a complete 100% to get home (and had no driveway or charger at home so needed a buffer). So leaving after 80% would mean an extra stop out of our way to charge.

Not so much of an issue now with the ID3 - the range is revolutionary on a long drive! But if we need to charge as close to full as possible, I will wait in the car and, if someone else needs the charger, will disconnect and let them use it. Best courtesy is to keep an eye on the charger - if other people are waiting, then move on as soon as you can.

[G43FAN]

Long distance EV driving has long been sold as possible by using the prolonged charging (as opposed to an ICE refill) as being time to take a break and maybe something to eat. Whilst people 'hogging' chargers may seem to be anti social the overall sales pitch has always been 'chill, take your time and enjoy the journey'.

Let's hope Mr Musk's latest announcement comes to fruition and we get access to those lovely Supercharger points.

[monkeyhanger]

I personally think that people can charge to what they want. I would have no idea if that person is doing another 200miles and needs 100%. Leaving a car in a charging bay without charging is not acceptable, but going to 100% is a personal choice. Its not his fault its the fact there are not enough EV chargers

There's a serious lack of convenience in charging to 100% away from home. If you can get from 20% to 80% in 30 mins or so, but to get to 100% will take you an additional hour at a very slow speed, then surely its morally right and more convenient for all that you get off after 30 mins, do another 100-150 miles and top up again for 20% in 15-20.mins (80% charge in 50 mins over 2 stops rather than hogging the charger for 90.mins to get 20-100%.

[Andreas]

I just charged on an Osprey 50kW from 69-100% in 35 minutes (77kWh battery, total charge 21.76kWh, no I don't understand the math either), in advance of a long trip on Saturday. I suspect the final 20% took 25 minutes of this. It's well within the realm of a coffee break, and given I don't have a home charger I would take a dim view of someone policing me for this.

All the best

Andreas

[AKVH]

@roadhawk I am thinking of getting a VW id3 - mostly I drive around 30 miles a day but a few times a year I drive up to Leeds - we live just south of Oxford so the journey is around 190 miles. I notice you say you do a regular drive from Oxford to Leeds and I just wondered whether you thought we would make this journey on a single charge or whether in reality we would need to stop on the way to charge?
Would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks
Abi


This pretty much matches what I see. I do a regular run of 165 miles from Oxford to Leeds , with ACC set to 70-72mph, AC ON usually around18C and get 3.7 miles/kwh in the dry. I found this last Sunday that with some rain at the start consumption was up a tad and ended at 3.6.
[/quote]

[BeesKnees]

I have a simple worst case scenario I'd like your advice on

I'm getting a 58KWh Life Pro in a couple of months, my most regular journey of any distance will be 150 miles to London and back.

Will this car do this with 80% charge if I drive at 70-75mph on a cold\ wet winters night?

I'm beginning to think this will be a close run thing.

[monkeyhanger]

I have a simple worst case scenario I'd like your advice on

I'm getting a 58KWh Life Pro in a couple of months, my most regular journey of any distance will be 150 miles to London and back.

Will this car do this with 80% charge if I drive at 70-75mph on a cold\ wet winters night?

I'm beginning to think this will be a close run thing.

That will be a very close call. 90% charge? Almost certainly at 70mph.

[Andreas]

It sounds like it will be close.

Not in relation to that scenario, really hot day, motorway/A road (up to 130km/h/81mph and 110km/h/69mph) in Italy, roundtrip distance 410km/256 miles, with the first and last 13km on windy country roads. Started at 94%, closed at 14% no charge on the road, so implied range 320 miles. About half the trip with air con, outbound single passenger, return three adults and a bit of luggage.

I'm fairly chuffed with that performance.

All the best

Andreas

[Utumno]

I have a simple worst case scenario I'd like your advice on

I'm getting a 58KWh Life Pro in a couple of months, my most regular journey of any distance will be 150 miles to London and back.

Will this car do this with 80% charge if I drive at 70-75mph on a cold\ wet winters night?

I'm beginning to think this will be a close run thing.

This almost exact use case is why we ordered a Tour instead of a Max. 140 mile round trip in deepest winter might well leave me with an approximated 10 miles left in the Max’s battery, according to the worst case numbers. There is hardly any public charging availability between the two points (I checked). All it would take is an incident on the M40, and I might need rescuing. Bad times.

I get this is worst possible case, and I might have the only recorded case of extreme range anxiety without actually owning an EV, but I really don’t want the stress each time I go to do that journey.

So we decided on the Tour which gives us a reasonable margin and flexibility to go off original route to find a rapid charger should it be necessary.

YMMV of course, but I honestly think we made the right call there based on our needs.

UPDATE: I ran your numbers through my spreadsheet. You won’t be doing that journey successfully on 80% charge. Again bear in mind that my spreadsheet is very much worst case…

[MotMot]

First - getting stuck in traffic actually improves your economy…

Second - I’ve done 3 Manchester to Hull journeys so far - mostly at 70 and I’m averaging 4 for those journeys.

But all in summer etc…

Though if there is somewhere reliable anywhere on the journey - a 5-10 min splash and dash would keep you easily in range.

[Warminster id]

I’ve just driven from westbury in Wiltshire to March in Cambridgeshire 190 miles driving time 4.05 hours 4.2 kw/mi.
I stopped at fleet for a comfort break and topped up for 10 minutes then on to the ionity chargers at Baldock for a full charge arrived with 205 miles range so just a comfort top up break on my return.
It’s not to cheapest way to do it but convenient.
Unless you have a good bladder 70 miles would need a break so my advice would be to top up while finding relief so no anxiety either way

[BeesKnees]

It's going to be interesting. Looks like may be needing a quick stop at Reading or Chieveley services on occasion.

Thanks for the advice, I hadn't even considered that I might not make it until reading this thread

[Deleted User 192]

I have a simple worst case scenario I'd like your advice on

I'm getting a 58KWh Life Pro in a couple of months, my most regular journey of any distance will be 150 miles to London and back.

Will this car do this with 80% charge if I drive at 70-75mph on a cold\ wet winters night?

I'm beginning to think this will be a close run thing.

Not in winter if setting off at 80%.

You would get roughly 3 miles/kWh, possibly less, setting off at 80% with 3 miles/kWh you’re looking at 139.2 miles total.

Setting off at 100% and you should make it home, if not then a “splash and dash” stop on your way home would be needed.

[Utumno]

It's going to be interesting. Looks like may be needing a quick stop at Reading or Chieveley services on occasion.

Thanks for the advice, I hadn't even considered that I might not make it until reading this thread

Wait, you said motorway speeds, and then you start talking about Reading. You’ll probably be fine at M4 speeds

[BeesKnees]

True

I also forgot to consider that a third of the journey isn't on motorways so I'll be doing 40-50mph max.

I'm looking forward to finding out, but I suspect it's not going to be as bad as I feared

[NDBlair]

We've just done Dublin to Devon last weekend.

Was at 100% leaving home, drove motorway down to Rosslare and used ESB charger to get from about 30% to about 70%.

Off the ferry at Pembroke and we topped up at Cardiff West Moto Gridserve when we stopped for coffee. Went from about 30% again to about 70% again in around 20 minutes.

Down the M5 and we stopped at the Ionity at Cullompton. Was down to 23 miles of range at this stage, around 12% battery left. Charged at the Ionity back up to about 70% in about 20 minutes but cost a fortune compared to the other top ups.

Made it down to Tavistock with about 80 miles of range left.

Overall very happy with the journey, the Gridserve didn't want to charge 2 cars at a time but a guy with a Leaf very kindly let me go first even though he'd been there before me. It certainly helps to plan in advance, a combination of ZapMap and ABRP helped for sure.

Got the return journey to do this coming Tuesday. Car is saying I've a range of 240 miles at 100% charge, Cardiff is 150 miles away, considering trying a one stop approach this time...