Bi directional charging on 77kW models

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Smitten
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Post by Smitten » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:25 am

There are several interesting snippets of information in here about WE Charge, Bi directional charging etc

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... odels-7695
Tour Pro S 77kWh, heatpump, 19" Andoya wheels, Glacier White
Ordered 21.8.21
Order No: 314400**
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:42 am

Interesting, the article appears to state that 77kWh models already have the bidirectional hardware necessary installed in the car, including all 77kWh models already shipped. I wasn’t aware this was the case.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:52 am

If we're in a position where we need to give back our car's charge at peak times then our national grid is truly screwed.

Might be useful for caravanners/campers to use some of that power out and about if they don't need the range.

Daesimpso
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Post by Daesimpso » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:40 am

Interesting timing.

Only yesterday I was talking to a colleague about a home battery system that I could charge overnight at 5p per KWh and use during the day when electricity is 24p.

I was saying it seemed weird to pay thousands for a 10KWh battery system when I have a 77 KWh one sat on the driveway for most of the time.

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Andreas
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Post by Andreas » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:50 am

monkeyhanger wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:52 am
If we're in a position where we need to give back our car's charge at peak times then our national grid is truly screwed.

Might be useful for caravanners/campers to use some of that power out and about if they don't need the range.
V2H is more relevant. Charge at night on a cheap tariff or at lunchtime from solar for free, supply the home from the car during the day/evening/morning hours.

All the best

Andreas
——————
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:56 am

Daesimpso wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:40 am
Interesting timing.

Only yesterday I was talking to a colleague about a home battery system that I could charge overnight at 5p per KWh and use during the day when electricity is 24p.

I was saying it seemed weird to pay thousands for a 10KWh battery system when I have a 77 KWh one sat on the driveway for most of the time.
You'd have to weigh up the savings vs the extra hammering of the car's battery and whether that is going to impact the car's worth. Doing this could mean the difference between charging every 3 or 4 days to doing it every night.

It's only worth doing while we have those 5p per kWh charging windows. If we all start doing this, off peak is going to become the new peak and it won'tbe 5p per kWh any more.

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Andreas
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Post by Andreas » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:35 am

TBH, if you do V2H, rather than V2G, which I consider to be a very weak value proposition, you could probably keep the battery from being hammered. Your daily use at home is what? 10-15kWh? So about 20% on a Tour or 30% on a Life battery. You could easily establish a healthy battery regime that keeps it fluctuating between 35 and 75% SoC. I don't think that would have a detrimental impact on it as it is all AC operation.

Point on peak shifting is valid, but you need many years of EV penetration before that becomes an issue.

All the best

Andreas
——————
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Http://rommelsriposte.com (not car related)

Daesimpso
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Post by Daesimpso » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:31 am

monkeyhanger wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:56 am

It's only worth doing while we have those 5p per kWh charging windows. If we all start doing this, off peak is going to become the new peak and it won'tbe 5p per kWh any more.
Even more reason to use the car I’ve already paid for and not fork out on a battery system. Make hay whilst the sun shines

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:29 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:52 am
If we're in a position where we need to give back our car's charge at peak times then our national grid is truly screwed.

Might be useful for caravanners/campers to use some of that power out and about if they don't need the range.

Ah, to be clear, I consider V2G to be an utterly useless technology. It only works at scale, and by the time you’ve reached the scale to make it work, you must have already solved the problem it was trying to solve.

V2H is a much more compelling use case in my humble.
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Smitten
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Post by Smitten » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:08 pm

Utumno wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:29 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:52 am
If we're in a position where we need to give back our car's charge at peak times then our national grid is truly screwed.

Might be useful for caravanners/campers to use some of that power out and about if they don't need the range.

Ah, to be clear, I consider V2G to be an utterly useless technology. It only works at scale, and by the time you’ve reached the scale to make it work, you must have already solved the problem it was trying to solve.

V2H is a much more compelling use case in my humble.
It was V2H that caught my attention as we are looking at domestic battery installation right now. I find the idea of using some of the 77kW battery to save money on domestic electricity bills quite appealing as we are an all electric house with a heat pump. Imagining today, I was out this morning but I am home working in the office this afternoon so that car could easily be plugged in using 5p/kW Go electricity from last night to power the heat pump now, and then charge up again over night.

If you have V2H you won't need V2G.
Tour Pro S 77kWh, heatpump, 19" Andoya wheels, Glacier White
Ordered 21.8.21
Order No: 314400**
Status "With factory"
Build week 24 unconfirmed
Delivery Q4 2022 delayed from Q1 2022

sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas » Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:10 pm

Does anyone know why the functionality isn't seemingly being provided for 58kwh models?
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:20 pm

sidehaas wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:10 pm
Does anyone know why the functionality isn't seemingly being provided for 58kwh models?

I can only guess that the hardware hasn’t been fitted to the 58kWh models - you typically need more complex and costly hardware in the car inverter for V2H.
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Post by G43FAN » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:29 pm

Just me that finds this an odd statement " At the heart of the Way to ZERO decarbonisation programme is the "

Sounds like they are heading for Zero decarbonisation?


Any thoughts on this? "There is also a new Battery Care Mode that ensures maximum protection of the battery. This restricts the upper charge level (SOC) to 80 percent." OK.. by that I mean, my thought being, the data they have collected is not favourable towards charging over 100%?
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:38 pm

G43FAN wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:29 pm
Just me that finds this an odd statement " At the heart of the Way to ZERO decarbonisation programme is the "

Sounds like they are heading for Zero decarbonisation?


Any thoughts on this? "There is also a new Battery Care Mode that ensures maximum protection of the battery. This restricts the upper charge level (SOC) to 80 percent." OK.. by that I mean, my thought being, the data they have collected is not favourable towards charging over 100%?

VW’s decarbonisation programme is called “Way to ZERO”.

How would a battery charge to over 100%?
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Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker

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Splitty
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Post by Splitty » Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:32 am

If you have a Tesla power wall and solar, Octopus offer a Tesla plan which is about £0.11 per KWh for export and import. Tesla operate the batteries and octopus administer it. Tesla warrant the battery will retain 70% capacity after 10 years. Sounds like VW want to get into the energy business as well.

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Post by G43FAN » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:07 am

Utumno wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:38 pm
G43FAN wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:29 pm
Just me that finds this an odd statement " At the heart of the Way to ZERO decarbonisation programme is the "

Sounds like they are heading for Zero decarbonisation?


Any thoughts on this? "There is also a new Battery Care Mode that ensures maximum protection of the battery. This restricts the upper charge level (SOC) to 80 percent." OK.. by that I mean, my thought being, the data they have collected is not favourable towards charging over 100%?

VW’s decarbonisation programme is called “Way to ZERO”.

How would a battery charge to over 100%?
Yes I get the name is Way to Zero and as you have put it in quotes, I felt they should have also.. not everyone reading would understand it was what they're program was called.. or maybe they would?

Should have said over 80% or to 100%
Family Pro: East Derry Wheels: Moonstone Grey - Software 2.3 finally installed 13/12/2021
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Smitten
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Post by Smitten » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:22 pm

G43FAN wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:07 am
Utumno wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:38 pm
G43FAN wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:29 pm
Just me that finds this an odd statement " At the heart of the Way to ZERO decarbonisation programme is the "

Sounds like they are heading for Zero decarbonisation?


Any thoughts on this? "There is also a new Battery Care Mode that ensures maximum protection of the battery. This restricts the upper charge level (SOC) to 80 percent." OK.. by that I mean, my thought being, the data they have collected is not favourable towards charging over 100%?

VW’s decarbonisation programme is called “Way to ZERO”.

How would a battery charge to over 100%?
Yes I get the name is Way to Zero and as you have put it in quotes, I felt they should have also.. not everyone reading would understand it was what they're program was called.. or maybe they would?

Should have said over 80% or to 100%
Possibly lost in translation from German. UK media tend to use the Economist Style Guide but perhaps German use of quotation marks is different...The did use caps to signify a name/naming
Tour Pro S 77kWh, heatpump, 19" Andoya wheels, Glacier White
Ordered 21.8.21
Order No: 314400**
Status "With factory"
Build week 24 unconfirmed
Delivery Q4 2022 delayed from Q1 2022

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