Spotted on Electrek - "England will be first country to require new homes to include EV chargers"

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:54 pm

https://electrek.co/2021/09/10/england- ... -chargers/
The British government will introduce legislation in 2021 that will require all newly built homes and offices to feature electric vehicle chargers in England.

Specifically, all new homes and offices will have to feature “smart” charging devices that can automatically charge vehicles during off-peak periods. New office blocks will need to install a charge point for every five parking spaces.

The new law will make England the first country in the world to require all new homes to have EV chargers.
First I've heard of this legislation, anyone else heard of it ? I'm deeply suspicious, as it's gov.uk and they're inherently useless no matter what colour they happen to be, but it can't be a bad thing if true for EV adoption, can it ?
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Post by monkeyhanger » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:44 pm

According to the daily mail yesterday (so take it with a pinch of salt), new home/workplace chargers won't charge during peak times. You'll have to override/consent every single time. The Hovernment is apparently concerned that if everyone starts charging their EVs when they get home from work, the national grid will go into meltdown - as more people start taking up EV ownership.

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Post by Utumno » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 pm

Here’s the gov.uk document from which the Daily Heil’s “journalism” stems.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sponse.pdf
The Government will mandate that smart chargepoints must prompt users to input a charging schedule during first use. In addition, smart chargepoints must be pre-set to offer users a charging schedule that by default prevents EVs from charging at peak times. During first use, the user must be given the opportunity to edit or remove this setting. The user must also be able to remove or edit this default setting at a later date. Peak times will be defined in legislation as 8am to 11am and 4pm to 10pm on weekdays.
Not really the same thing as reported at all, and expressly isn’t something to override/consent each individual time. The document isn’t long, and is worth a read.

Still haven’t been able to find any source information on the EV charger mandate, other than a lot of sites cross linking each other on an “announcement”…
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Post by MotMot » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am

Still not especially onerous to charge your car between 11am-4pm at work though…

Anyway. Good luck with standardising that across the rather diverse EV charger market!!

A much more ‘free market’ way might be to incentivise or encourage electricity suppliers to have flexible costing (like octopus go and even agile).

Though - watch out for the market getting too free - in the recent (a) very cold spell in winter and (b) very hot spells in summer this caused lots of problems in Texas. There the market is very open and flexible - so people on super cheap tarrifs then paid crazy amounts when peak demand went sky high for heating (winter) or cooling… or more to the point people couldn’t pay so got in real trouble not being able to hear or cool their homes when they needed to most.

Anyway - I digress from the OP.

It’ll all be a massive cock up as all the different energy suppliers will work with different charger brands and try abs do things in a different way. No common API etc… you can already see that where EOn, BGas, Ovo etc etc all have different charger/tarrif tie ups (and Obvs Octopus everyone’s present EV fave)

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Post by G43FAN » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:57 am

Here's a link to the Welsh governments proposal for this from last year.. https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/c ... cument.pdf

So I guess England might not be the 1st..

edit * - Oh.. according to the comments definitely not as Sweden already has this legislation in place..
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Post by metcast » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:27 am

Accidental post
Last edited by metcast on Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by metcast » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:28 am

MotMot wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am
Still not especially onerous to charge your car between 11am-4pm at work though…

Anyway. Good luck with standardising that across the rather diverse EV charger market!!

A much more ‘free market’ way might be to incentivise or encourage electricity suppliers to have flexible costing (like octopus go and even agile).

Though - watch out for the market getting too free - in the recent (a) very cold spell in winter and (b) very hot spells in summer this caused lots of problems in Texas. There the market is very open and flexible - so people on super cheap tarrifs then paid crazy amounts when peak demand went sky high for heating (winter) or cooling… or more to the point people couldn’t pay so got in real trouble not being able to hear or cool their homes when they needed to most.

Anyway - I digress from the OP.

It’ll all be a massive cock up as all the different energy suppliers will work with different charger brands and try abs do things in a different way. No common API etc… you can already see that where EOn, BGas, Ovo etc etc all have different charger/tarrif tie ups (and Obvs Octopus everyone’s present EV fave)
Let’s not overcomplicate it. It’s really just a default suggested schedule which the user is asked to change at setup or can later on. No different than a heating system or most devices that come with scheduling
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Post by G43FAN » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am

I'd have thought a more ideal solution to an extent would be to legislate for suitable new builds to have PV panels installed rather than chargers.
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Post by scott28tt » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:48 am

G43FAN wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am
I'd have thought a more ideal solution to an extent would be to legislate for suitable new builds to have PV panels installed rather than chargers.

I bought my new build in 2018, it had to have PV panels due to local council rules - sadly the output is only 1kW, so I don't even think about them when charging my car, but better than nothing.

Consider also that a lot of charging will happen in the evenings and overnight, are you adding battery storage to that legislation? ;)
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:03 am

MotMot wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am
A much more ‘free market’ way might be to incentivise or encourage electricity suppliers to have flexible costing (like octopus go and even agile).

That's all in the document too both for time-of-use and demand-side-response stuff.
MotMot wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am
Though - watch out for the market getting too free - in the recent (a) very cold spell in winter and (b) very hot spells in summer this caused lots of problems in Texas. There the market is very open and flexible - so people on super cheap tarrifs then paid crazy amounts when peak demand went sky high for heating (winter) or cooling… or more to the point people couldn’t pay so got in real trouble not being able to hear or cool their homes when they needed to most.

The ultimate freedom is the freedom to take the consequences ;-)
MotMot wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am
It’ll all be a massive cock up as all the different energy suppliers will work with different charger brands and try abs do things in a different way. No common API etc… you can already see that where EOn, BGas, Ovo etc etc all have different charger/tarrif tie ups (and Obvs Octopus everyone’s present EV fave)

Actually there is a common charger API (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Char ... t_Protocol - again worth boning up on) but gov.uk's requirements doesn't mandate make the API available to householders either from an equipment perspective, nor from a provider perspective.

DSR tariffs can only work when there's a common API, and OCPP is it for the UK, as far as I can tell. Tariffs like Intelligent Octopus (https://octopus.energy/intelligent-faqs/) work through the Tesla API and/or OCPP ... but because there's no open authentication process mandated by gov.uk Octopus basically have to go around doing deals with every charger manufacturer rather than giving the householder the choice of linkage. It's early days for this though, and there are several years to think about mandating that kind of interoperability before it gets truly difficult.
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