Delivery time

[sausageroll]

If anyone fancies a Tour Pro there might be one available sooner rather than later as we've just cancelled our order after reaching the end of our tether with VW and in particular the dealers in Basingstoke.

Here's the last email from them when I asked them to confirm where the car is in the build process.

Hello,

The forecast is when it is due to be built. You will have a build week and a forecast week. Now the build week is now changing which is why we think the car is actually built but just waiting for its chip.

Thank you,

Kind Regards

IMG-20211217-WA0001.jpg

I really find things like ‘it’s just waiting for chips’ very hard to believe. I doubt very much it’s like a PC and you can build an entire car then push it into a car park to later install a few Intel processors in various places.

It’s going to be imbedded chips in actual components so the car surely won’t even start down the main production line until they have all the parts to make it. Otherwise they are going to have to stop the production line whilst they wait for X component (costing millions per day) or not fit them and do it later. Can you imagine them running a car down the entire production line but not putting in the dash and doing it later on the car park for example.

I’m convinced what’s happen is cars with all the parts are getting built, so lower spec cars are taking less time because there are less parts that have imbedded chips. It would be interesting to know what is actually considered the start of production by VW. I’d assumed it’s the body starting being assembled, perhaps it’s the power train. But it’s built and waiting for chips has to be nonsense!

Well for a start it can't be built but yet not built!

I don't believe there's a continuous production line from sheet metal to rolling out under its own steam - they must split it into body, paint, assembly. So I assume, there's potential to 'break' between stages.

Completely possible to skip installing a screen or something and do that bit manually to one side though.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

If anyone fancies a Tour Pro there might be one available sooner rather than later as we've just cancelled our order after reaching the end of our tether with VW and in particular the dealers in Basingstoke.

Here's the last email from them when I asked them to confirm where the car is in the build process.

Hello,

The forecast is when it is due to be built. You will have a build week and a forecast week. Now the build week is now changing which is why we think the car is actually built but just waiting for its chip.

Thank you,

Kind Regards

IMG-20211217-WA0001.jpg

I really find things like ‘it’s just waiting for chips’ very hard to believe. I doubt very much it’s like a PC and you can build an entire car then push it into a car park to later install a few Intel processors in various places.

It’s going to be imbedded chips in actual components so the car surely won’t even start down the main production line until they have all the parts to make it. Otherwise they are going to have to stop the production line whilst they wait for X component (costing millions per day) or not fit them and do it later. Can you imagine them running a car down the entire production line but not putting in the dash and doing it later on the car park for example.

I’m convinced what’s happen is cars with all the parts are getting built, so lower spec cars are taking less time because there are less parts that have imbedded chips. It would be interesting to know what is actually considered the start of production by VW. I’d assumed it’s the body starting being assembled, perhaps it’s the power train. But it’s built and waiting for chips has to be nonsense!

Well for a start it can't be built but yet not built!

I don't believe there's a continuous production line from sheet metal to rolling out under its own steam - they must split it into body, paint, assembly. So I assume, there's potential to 'break' between stages.

Completely possible to skip installing a screen or something and do that bit manually to one side though.

Power train and body assembly are different but they come together at some point and the body must have the VIN stamped on it. Once that is going down the line it’s a continuous production line.

I really don’t think it’s possible to skip things like screens. The dash is one piece. There are videos of them bng assembled on YouTube. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure about it. Other than the videos I’ve got a mate that worked at the Honda factory in Swindon. Most of the parts including the body panels are made elsewhere but there is one assembled line the cars go down and stopping it cost a fortune!

[ItshardtobuyId3]

All the videos of the id3 being built include the tooling being made and tested so make it look much more handmade than it is. But there are plenty of videos of other cars being assembled and it’s quite clear that skipping major parts isn’t going to work out well baring in mind the sort of thing that will use chips (the batteries, brakes, dashboard, lights, reversing camera, HUD…

This is the mini line but it is gonna be pretty typical

[sausageroll]

Power train and body assembly are different but they come together at some point and the body must have the VIN stamped on it. Once that is going down the line it’s a continuous production line.

I really don’t think it’s possible to skip things like screens. The dash is one piece. There are videos of them bng assembled on YouTube. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure about it. Other than the videos I’ve got a mate that worked at the Honda factory in Swindon. Most of the parts including the body panels are made elsewhere but there is one assembled line the cars go down and stopping it cost a fortune!

I think that's because you're confusing the "loopholes" with in-house manufacturing.

Lots of UK assembly was literally that, with very little manufacturing, so that various benefits can be claimed to technically make the car 'built' in the UK.

VW will do the lot, so they won't be working in the same processes. I'm pretty sure it's even been referenced that VW will have cars parked up waiting for some components, otherwise they'd have people sat around doing nothing.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

Power train and body assembly are different but they come together at some point and the body must have the VIN stamped on it. Once that is going down the line it’s a continuous production line.

I really don’t think it’s possible to skip things like screens. The dash is one piece. There are videos of them bng assembled on YouTube. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure about it. Other than the videos I’ve got a mate that worked at the Honda factory in Swindon. Most of the parts including the body panels are made elsewhere but there is one assembled line the cars go down and stopping it cost a fortune!

I think that's because you're confusing the "loopholes" with in-house manufacturing.

Lots of UK assembly was literally that, with very little manufacturing, so that various benefits can be claimed to technically make the car 'built' in the UK.

VW will do the lot, so they won't be working in the same processes. I'm pretty sure it's even been referenced that VW will have cars parked up waiting for some components, otherwise they'd have people sat around doing nothing.

I’m not convinced. They certainly don’t make the chips or there wouldn’t be a problem. Car manufacturers stopped ordering parts that used chips (almost certainly ARM based) and others didn’t due to a boom in people ordering consumer electronics. When the car makers restarted ordering they had lost allocations. Tesla didn’t cancel so is unaffected.

Also, with Honda all the body panels were made in Gloucester by a different company and shipped to Swindon. My second job was working for a company called TransTec that made parts for Ford and Jaguar Land Rover. The parts were made in the U.K. but not by the manufacturer.

It’s quite possible VW own a lot more of their supply chain but the operation of the final assembly isn’t going to be that different. They be better off building cars they can finish than part building cars they can’t.

To change the example, if in the video I linked Mini knew it wouldn’t have enough of a certain alloy wheel using Just in Time supply chains that it would build that car anyway but crane it off the end of the line then crane it back in so it could go though all the tests it should of had…. They just wouldn’t build it and build something they could finish instead.

[Newfie]

I'm sure they do not have cars sitting about awaiting chips. When they start a build it will be followed through and built. My car was a wk 39 confirmed build week. In wk 45 my car was in the paintshop and 6 days later it was on its way to Emden.
Its just the case that build eeeks mean nothing as there are at the least 6 weeks behind schedule and possibly even more now.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

I'm sure they do not have cars sitting about awaiting chips. When they start a build it will be followed through and built. My car was a wk 39 confirmed build week. In wk 45 my car was in the paintshop and 6 days later it was on its way to Emden.
Its just the case that build eeeks mean nothing as there are at the least 6 weeks behind schedule and possibly even more now.

Yep, if they are a actually doing that they will go bust soon or the cars will be so defective you’re better off not getting it.

I’ve only crashed one car in my life (so far) and it was pretty badly damaged. When I asked the people that were selected to fix it if it would be written off I was told they weren’t allowed to say but it’s pretty close and that if either of the front airbags had gone off it definitely would have because it’s too expensive to replace the dashboard!

I expect the dealers are largely in the dark and making up excuses. Perhaps not even deliberately being dishonest… the hold up is chips and the computer is telling them it’s built or being built.

[IDontknow]

Edit

[IDontknow]

Power train and body assembly are different but they come together at some point and the body must have the VIN stamped on it. Once that is going down the line it’s a continuous production line.

I really don’t think it’s possible to skip things like screens. The dash is one piece. There are videos of them bng assembled on YouTube. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure about it. Other than the videos I’ve got a mate that worked at the Honda factory in Swindon. Most of the parts including the body panels are made elsewhere but there is one assembled line the cars go down and stopping it cost a fortune!

I think that's because you're confusing the "loopholes" with in-house manufacturing.

Lots of UK assembly was literally that, with very little manufacturing, so that various benefits can be claimed to technically make the car 'built' in the UK.

VW will do the lot, so they won't be working in the same processes. I'm pretty sure it's even been referenced that VW will have cars parked up waiting for some components, otherwise they'd have people sat around doing nothing.

Posted the link below a while ago - but in case you missed it - it's quite well publicised in reputable sources that the shortage of semiconductors is causing havoc. Several car manufacturers are known to be producing the cars, parking them up and then manually disassembling them and reassembling them when the semiconductors are available. It's bonkers but apparently it's cheaper than closing the whole production line and starting up again.

VW have been lacking in my experience (communication has been rubbish), but I think the semiconductor / manufacturing side of it is largely outside of their control.

Our ID3 was in build for 10 weeks before being moved to Emden and then shipped to UK. By the time we get our hands on it at the end of the month, it will have been a 6 month process.

Start where is says "chips are all over the place" for the stuff about car manufacturing.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/31/2264 ... -interview

[Utumno]

If anyone fancies a Tour Pro there might be one available sooner rather than later as we've just cancelled our order after reaching the end of our tether with VW and in particular the dealers in Basingstoke.

Here's the last email from them when I asked them to confirm where the car is in the build process.

Hello,

The forecast is when it is due to be built. You will have a build week and a forecast week. Now the build week is now changing which is why we think the car is actually built but just waiting for its chip.

Thank you,

Kind Regards

IMG-20211217-WA0001.jpg

Can I ask, what was the final straw leading to cancellation for you?

[Rhodes13]

[quote=Rhodes13 post_id=16746 time=<a href="tel:1639850380">1639850380</a> user_id=1871]
If anyone fancies a Tour Pro there might be one available sooner rather than later as we've just cancelled our order after reaching the end of our tether with VW and in particular the dealers in Basingstoke.

Here's the last email from them when I asked them to confirm where the car is in the build process.

Hello,

The forecast is when it is due to be built. You will have a build week and a forecast week. Now the build week is now changing which is why we think the car is actually built but just waiting for its chip.

Thank you,

Kind Regards

IMG-20211217-WA0001.jpg

Can I ask, what was the final straw leading to cancellation for you?
[/quote]

For me it was the culmination of two things. Firstly their inability to even give a straight answer. Originally not told about any delays when we ordered the car (indeed as you can see from the order it was scheduled as a 3 month build). When other VW customers were receiving the letter from VW about production delays we asked our dealer about it to be told we didn’t get it because it didn’t effect us. Fast forward to late November when we asked for an update and now we’re told that all cars are being delivered late and that you were sent a letter by VW. Queue much surprise at that, spoke to the head of sales to get some more information. We received that last screenshot saying a new build week of week 51 (their words). We then went down the rabbit hole of whether it was a MY22.5 or MY22. The dealership was adamant it was built and awaiting chips but as others have said I don’t actually believe there are partially assembled cars just laying about in the VW factories it’s more than likely they are prioritising lower spec model to meet their end of year deadline to avoid fines from the EU over Co2 targets. I notice the distinct lack of Tour spec cars being delivered for the last couple of months.

So we rang again last week to see if we would make the end of the year for a delivery to then be told by another salesman that the car would only be built “late Jan 22,” later contradicted when we rang for clarification on the matter.

Overall the communication from the dealership and VW has been woeful and I’m sorry I am the customer not the dealership. VW chose the model to operate under (mostly to reduce the financial expenditure required to run the dealership) so there’s an obligation for both the dealer and the manufacturer to communicate. I didn’t buy a Martins id3 did I? VWUK has gone out of its way to make getting any information about your car next to impossible by removing the tracker and the messenger facility. Why would a company literally shut down all lines of communication when all people really want is open and honest communication?

And lastly it was the attitude from the dealership, utterly woeful customer service. We were treated as an inconvenience. We always had to chase them for any information and when they did bother to pick up the phone or respond to emails we were just given non sensical answers. Believe it or not that’s one of the better emails from our salesman. I’ve read it about five times and I still don’t understand what it’s saying.

It’s not helped by the fact this is the second time in three years that VW have done this to me. This whole rigmarole was repeated in 2018 when I tried to buy a Tiguan. There again they wouldn’t give a build date and gave us the run around.

On a side note whilst there is a shortage of capacity in the semi conductor business what VW isn’t being truthful about is that they cancelled the bulk of their orders at the start of the pandemic expecting a cratering in demand. That didn’t eventuate and when they went to reorder they were told sorry we’ve sold the production so you’re back of the queue. My wife works in an industry that uses a lot of those same chips and they are able to maintain production as they kept their orders and didn’t cancel. What they can’t do is dramatically increase production if any new orders come in.

[Utumno]

Thanks, and I sympathise with you. Particularly with the nonsensical emails, I too was scratching my head a bit with the email you quoted.

[Bubba82]

All the dealers are as good or bad as each other in my opinion, when I ordered in September one dealer told me that they have been told to say June 22 for deliveries but I rung around and got a jan one but might at this rate end up been June, also at the time I was told BMW’s in America are been sold without the touchscreen because of the chip shortage….haven’t confirmed this so not sure if it’s true, and I know for a fact that Volvos have removed some of the safety feature options because of the chip shortage, not trying to defend VW but there are problems out there everywhere, recently we ordered a Tiguan from a different dealer and that is 40 weeks now!

[sausageroll]

All the dealers are as good or bad as each other in my opinion, when I ordered in September one dealer told me that they have been told to say June 22 for deliveries but I rung around and got a jan one but might at this rate end up been June, also at the time I was told BMW’s in America are been sold without the touchscreen because of the chip shortage….haven’t confirmed this so not sure if it’s true, and I know for a fact that Volvos have removed some of the safety feature options because of the chip shortage, not trying to defend VW but there are problems out there everywhere, recently we ordered a Tiguan from a different dealer and that is 40 weeks now!

When I ordered back in July I was told roughly 6 months then, even though others would have been saying much sooner.
By the time I collect, it'll be only a couple of weeks short I reckon.

Seen plenty of people ordering around then and since that they boastfully are getting theirs in 12 weeks or less, and then inevitably they get delayed. Seen people on things like Facebook who ordered in November getting aggressive and abusive with people's reactions to their claims of February deliveries when it's more likely to be September.

There seem to be naive people ordering from either dishonest or naive salespersons, and it's making the "community" rather toxic. I always say plan for the worst and hope for the best, and no one involve wants a delay because all anyone wants is their dues, and no one gets any until the customer has the keys

[smuj]

Looks like delays could last throughout 2022 and possibly into 2023

https://apple.news/ADQ71OH4AR3W2OuVf-QnjDg

[Bubba82]

All the dealers are as good or bad as each other in my opinion, when I ordered in September one dealer told me that they have been told to say June 22 for deliveries but I rung around and got a jan one but might at this rate end up been June, also at the time I was told BMW’s in America are been sold without the touchscreen because of the chip shortage….haven’t confirmed this so not sure if it’s true, and I know for a fact that Volvos have removed some of the safety feature options because of the chip shortage, not trying to defend VW but there are problems out there everywhere, recently we ordered a Tiguan from a different dealer and that is 40 weeks now!

When I ordered back in July I was told roughly 6 months then, even though others would have been saying much sooner.
By the time I collect, it'll be only a couple of weeks short I reckon.

Seen plenty of people ordering around then and since that they boastfully are getting theirs in 12 weeks or less, and then inevitably they get delayed. Seen people on things like Facebook who ordered in November getting aggressive and abusive with people's reactions to their claims of February deliveries when it's more likely to be September.

There seem to be naive people ordering from either dishonest or naive salespersons, and it's making the "community" rather toxic. I always say plan for the worst and hope for the best, and no one involve wants a delay because all anyone wants is their dues, and no one gets any until the customer has the keys

Unfortunately dealers never tell the full truth and the communication is never good…6 years ago I saw my new car sat at the dealership with a ref on it - phoned up 5 days after seeing it for a update to be tied ‘it’s just come of the transporter’ and gave me the reg of the car I saw so dealers never tell the truth!!
When I was intending to buy a Tiguan a few week ago my usual dealer wasn’t interested in selling me one, didn’t want to find out when the demo car was coming in, didn’t offer to phone me when it was available etc he did say at the time they normally have about 10 cars to carried over to next year that have been ordered but this year it’s over 200 just for that dealer let alone the group!…went elsewhere for the Tiguan to a dealer more interested in selling me one!!

[monkeyhanger]

It is massively inconvenient to build a car deliberately missing parts, only to pull them to bits again down the line to "fill the gaps".

I used to work at the Ford Transit van plant in Southampton (long gone now, production moved to Turkey). You really don't want hundreds of half built cars - storage and moving them around when they can't be driven is a massive PITA. Cleaning them up because they've sat in a field for weeks before they re-enter the factory for finishing off is another major pain.

When we used to do maintenance and modification of lines during shutdown, they used to stagger production area closures so that body welding finished first, then protective painting, then finish painting, then drivetrain and suspension/underbody, then interior to make sure each area ran out of work over a period of 3 days.

[IDontknow]

All the dealers are as good or bad as each other in my opinion, when I ordered in September one dealer told me that they have been told to say June 22 for deliveries but I rung around and got a jan one but might at this rate end up been June, also at the time I was told BMW’s in America are been sold without the touchscreen because of the chip shortage….haven’t confirmed this so not sure if it’s true, and I know for a fact that Volvos have removed some of the safety feature options because of the chip shortage, not trying to defend VW but there are problems out there everywhere, recently we ordered a Tiguan from a different dealer and that is 40 weeks now!

When I ordered back in July I was told roughly 6 months then, even though others would have been saying much sooner.
By the time I collect, it'll be only a couple of weeks short I reckon.

Seen plenty of people ordering around then and since that they boastfully are getting theirs in 12 weeks or less, and then inevitably they get delayed. Seen people on things like Facebook who ordered in November getting aggressive and abusive with people's reactions to their claims of February deliveries when it's more likely to be September.

There seem to be naive people ordering from either dishonest or naive salespersons, and it's making the "community" rather toxic. I always say plan for the worst and hope for the best, and no one involve wants a delay because all anyone wants is their dues, and no one gets any until the customer has the keys

For all our dealership has had probs with communication in the past, to be fair to them, I was told at the point of ordering (end of June) that the waiting time would be 20 weeks (end November). They said they hoped it would be inside that time frame, but there was a chance that it might be longer than that. Even back in the end of June they said it was due to a huge increase in orders for ID3/4 and the unknowns around the supply chain for semiconductors. So this stuff was known to the dealerships.

We've been lied to / been given unrealistic expectations in the past by dealers and it's a dreadful experience. I can only imagine how hacked off I'd be if I'd been told to expect delivery in aug/sept and made provisions around that. It's sad to hear how many people are left feeling cheated/disappointed when it could so easily be avoided with some honesty and regular communication. I guess there's no need for honesty/communication if demand is so high and principles are low.

[philipcon]

Ordered 31st July with an estimated date of 31st October
Told today code was 38 Port of Exit.
Anyone have any experience of how long it takes from here?

Pro Life, 145 Turquoise

[Newfie]

Ordered 31st July with an estimated date of 31st October
Told today code was 38 Port of Exit.
Anyone have any experience of how long it takes from here?

Pro Life, 145 Turquoise

Mine was 2 weeks from 38 to 40 (at UK port) then 5 days to dealer.