Sold back my ID.3 after a year

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mediumbird
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:23 am

Post by mediumbird » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:41 pm

So.....I must be one of very few people that have handed back their EV and exchanged it for an ICE. Reasons behind this. 1) I live in North rural Scotland but often travel to the central belt and the range was insufficient, and the charging infrastructure north of the central belt of Scotland is currently sparse and unreliable.(I've pitched up to places and none of the chargers are working). 2) The car just couldn't cope with the slightest bit of snow and I couldn't get out of my shallow drive one day. 3) In the cold weather for battery maintenance it suggests not letting the charge drop below 40% and not to charge it to 100% the majority go the time. This equates to about a 72 mile range in the winter for me. 4) I disliked the fact that they advise not to charge regularly on the fast DC chargers. But if you are travelling somewhere, you want to be able to charge the car quickly and not be hanging around for a couple of hours. 5) The blind spots from the front window columns were a total pain.
I think if I hadn't moved north and still resided in the Central belt of Scotland, then I would have kept the car, but it had rapidly become impractical for me in my current location. I shall miss the smooth acceleration and speed, but I have lost the constant fretting about charging the car. I appreciate I now have to may more for fuel, but I've got a range of 500 miles which is enough to get me up and down the A9 without refuelling.
I think I went into the EV car market too early and would certainly reconsider one once their range has improved and more importantly for me, the charging infrastructure has dramatically improved, as well as better battery technology.

G43FAN
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Post by G43FAN » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:52 pm

There are a few use cases which make then unviable and unfortunately yours would seem to be one.. Shame, hope you are prepared for the 'How much did you get for it interrogation?'
Family Pro: East Derry Wheels: Moonstone Grey - Software 2.3 finally installed 13/12/2021
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mediumbird
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Post by mediumbird » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:20 pm

Ha ha. Yes, because the demand for these cars is high, I got back almost what I’d paid for it over the year, so happy with that. Think it’s being retailed on the used market for more than I paid for it at the start!

Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm

3) You shouldn't leave the % below 40 (in winter) or at 100 for any length of time, but running low to finish your journey and setting off fully charged aren't an issue

4) Using rapid chargers because you need to also shouldn't be an issue

Good luck with your new wheels.
Last edited by Deleted User 192 on Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rikimaru
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Post by rikimaru » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:36 pm

So if you come home and the car is currently on 35%, you shouldn't leave it overnight as it is? Instead you should charge it, am I understanding that right?
16 Sep: ID3 Max in Moonstone Grey. BW 40 confirmed. ETA early Dec.
...lots of bad info and delays...
27 April: at port. ETA end of May.
Delivery ETA: 18 May!

G43FAN
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Location: N. Wales

Post by G43FAN » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:02 pm

rikimaru wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:36 pm
So if you come home and the car is currently on 35%, you shouldn't leave it overnight as it is? Instead you should charge it, am I understanding that right?
Yes, but unless the car's don't like the long dark nights, this Winter/Summer thing is a bit vague, my assumption is it's temperature based and is a bit too general given the warm Winter we're having currently. If you live somewhere where the Winter nights are down in the minuses I suspect it's more important.
Family Pro: East Derry Wheels: Moonstone Grey - Software 2.3 finally installed 13/12/2021
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:14 pm

My broad understanding/assumption is that anything less than 15 degree ambient temperatures will see reducing battery range, and that's before passengers start turning up the aircon and putting the heated seats on. 15 is probably the peak temperature this mild (so far) UK winter has seen.
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour 77kWh Pro S 204PS Tour in Manganese Grey (on order since 7-Jul-21, status 20, wk40 2021)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203

Djl403
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Post by Djl403 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:25 pm

I thought it was just me re: A pillars, they're are truly awful!

ricko
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Post by ricko » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:32 pm

For Li-Ion batteries in general :

Overall operating range -20 to +60 deg C
Ideal range is +15 to +35 dec C for best efficiency and life
Charging range is 0 to +30 deg C

Charging is not allowed at all below freezing

These are of course the actual battery temps rather than ambient

Rick
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Rab3L
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Post by Rab3L » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:46 pm

You can also pre-heat the car before departure. I have just charged my car at the local Tesco. While charging, I switched on the A/C with We Connect ID. The heating came on and the charging dropped to about 15mph initially and then recovered to 6kw. I will do this now before a long journey in this weather.

G43FAN
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Post by G43FAN » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:49 pm

I thought that was the cabin heating, not the battery.
Family Pro: East Derry Wheels: Moonstone Grey - Software 2.3 finally installed 13/12/2021
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Rab3L
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Post by Rab3L » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:06 pm

You might be correct but I have also read on here that you cannot charge and pre-heat at the same time, which is clearly incorrect. In the manual, on page 257 it says "Use the stationary air-conditioning in good time to improve comfort and performance". It seems illogical to me that if you are plugged in and want to pre-heat the car, that pre-heating of the battery doesn't happen, if required. Why would pre-heating the cabin only, improve performance?
Last edited by Rab3L on Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Rab3L
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Post by Rab3L » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:19 pm

mediumbird wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:41 pm
3) In the cold weather for battery maintenance it suggests not letting the charge drop below 40% and not to charge it to 100% the majority go the time. This equates to about a 72 mile range in the winter for me.
I don't understand this. There's no reason not to charge to 100% if you use the car soon afterwards. Also you can let the battery go below 40% as long as you are at 40% or above when you start from cold (because the battery will use something like 20% to pre-heat itself). With a home charger, neither of these two would be issues.

Warminster id
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Post by Warminster id » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:23 pm

G43FAN wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:49 pm
I thought that was the cabin heating, not the battery.
I think the fact that the car is plugged in and charging generates the heat in the battery
Life pro performance grey/steels standard car

mediumbird
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Post by mediumbird » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:38 pm

Rab3L wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:19 pm
mediumbird wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:41 pm
3) In the cold weather for battery maintenance it suggests not letting the charge drop below 40% and not to charge it to 100% the majority go the time. This equates to about a 72 mile range in the winter for me.
I don't understand this. There's no reason not to charge to 100% if you use the car soon afterwards. Also you can let the battery go below 40% as long as you are at 40% or above when you start from cold (because the battery will use something like 20% to pre-heat itself). With a home charger, neither of these two would be issues.
I did use to charge it to 100% quite often, and especially before a longish trip. I obviously don’t have the manual anymore, but it states for optimal battery health to only charge to 80% (unless you’re going to do a long trip) and not let it go below 40% in cold conditions. It’s winter just now in Scotland, so that effectively gave me a 40% range to work on. Now.....if that information about maintaining battery health isn’t correct, then the advice in the manual needs to be updated/ignored. However, those of us with little battery knowledge, would tend to follow the manufacturer’s advice.

Rab3L
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Post by Rab3L » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:43 pm

mediumbird wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:38 pm


I did use to charge it to 100% quite often, and especially before a longish trip. I obviously don’t have the manual anymore, but it states for optimal battery health to only charge to 80% (unless you’re going to do a long trip) and not let it go below 40% in cold conditions. It’s winter just now in Scotland, so that effectively gave me a 40% range to work on. Now.....if that information about maintaining battery health isn’t correct, then the advice in the manual needs to be updated/ignored. However, those of us with little battery knowledge, would tend to follow the manufacturer’s advice.
I think that this is more about using an unheated battery. The manual states (page 257): "In frost conditions, do not park the vehicle for several hours with a charge level below 40%.
Last edited by Rab3L on Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

mediumbird
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Post by mediumbird » Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:09 pm

Rab3L wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:43 pm
mediumbird wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:38 pm


I did use to charge it to 100% quite often, and especially before a longish trip. I obviously don’t have the manual anymore, but it states for optimal battery health to only charge to 80% (unless you’re going to do a long trip) and not let it go below 40% in cold conditions. It’s winter just now in Scotland, so that effectively gave me a 40% range to work on. Now.....if that information about maintaining battery health isn’t correct, then the advice in the manual needs to be updated/ignored. However, those of us with little battery knowledge, would tend to follow the manufacturer’s advice.
I think that this more about using an unheated battery. The manual states (page 257): "In frost conditions, do not park the vehicle for several hourswith a charge level with a charge level below 40%.
That’s kind of what happens in winter in Scotland, exacerbated if you don’t use the car every day....So, when you park it up at night you have to make sure the charge is not below 40%(at least that’s my take on the advice). In summer I used to let it run much lower.

NewId3
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Post by NewId3 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm

Sorry to hear that - I think the reduced winter range will have taken some by surprise.
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Sherlock
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Post by Sherlock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:10 pm

NewId3 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm
Sorry to hear that - I think the reduced winter range will have taken some by surprise.
The magnitude of the summer/winter difference certainly surprised me.

I expected not to achieve the WLTP figure of 260 miles, in the same way that I knew not to expect the MPG figures quoted for ICE cars. I thought I was being conservative in hoping to achieve a minimum of 200 miles though.

In the year I have had the car I have actually regularly been getting more than 200 in the summer (240/250 quite often), but in the low temperatures of winter quite a bit less than 200.

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:00 pm

Sherlock wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:10 pm
NewId3 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm
Sorry to hear that - I think the reduced winter range will have taken some by surprise.
The magnitude of the summer/winter difference certainly surprised me.

I expected not to achieve the WLTP figure of 260 miles, in the same way that I knew not to expect the MPG figures quoted for ICE cars. I thought I was being conservative in hoping to achieve a minimum of 200 miles though.

In the year I have had the car I have actually regularly been getting more than 200 in the summer (240/250 quite often), but in the low temperatures of winter quite a bit less than 200.

I do think this could be better explained to EV adopters coming from ICE, together with a dose of honesty and realism from the dealerships and manufacturers.

I know, it's a forlorn hope.

For us, we actually really wanted a Max rather than a Tour. However after researching ev-database.uk it became clear that the worst case "cold weather" range of the 58kWh pack simply wasn't quite going to suit us based on our travel patterns - 155 mile worst case range with no destination charging available to us and no appetite to charge mid-journey.

The extra "worst case" 50 miles given by the 77kWh battery pack gave us confidence that we should be able to do "there and back" for a specific vital journey without requiring a mid-journey break, so we ordered the Tour.

In summer, the 58kWh pack would have been absolutely fine, but winter would have been a stress based on those worst case numbers.
CANCELLED : ID.3 Tour 77kWh Pro S 204PS Tour in Manganese Grey (on order since 7-Jul-21, status 20, wk40 2021)

ID3 Build & Delivery Info Tracker : https://tinyurl.com/id3tracker
Octopus Referral : https://share.octopus.energy/aqua-foal-203

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