Phantom braking

[andrewtc]

So I tried using cruise control and it really isn’t useable; in particular going along a straight bit of the M11 near Cambridge it suddenly declares “bend ahead 28 mph” and slams the breaks on (tried several times in the same place) and it frequently does similar on A roads. It also finds speed limits of 70 mph when its 40mph there isn’t one and accelerates. That, the fact the voice recognition cannot understand the simplest instructions, and the irritating driver assist on lanes which steers you in to potholes makes me feel this is a mechanically great car spoiled by crumby software. Are the software upgrades any good? How do I actually do that, assuming I have never login the car in and don’t want their app on my phone.

[gailjon]

In contrast to your experience I find the cruise control in the ID3 to be excellent. You are able to adjust the settings so that you don't have the car change speed automatically so it doesn't change speeds when it thinks there has been a change in speed limit, such as previous roadworks, etc. I don't know why you would buy a car like the ID3 and not want the app when it is great for setting heating schedules, etc.

However, the app is not necessary to have updates but you do need a VW login to ensure that you are able receive ota updates. LKA (lane keep assist) is something that people complain about in all new cars and yes, the regulations mean that it is meant to be a pain to cancel and it does reset itself when restarting the car as it does on all modern cars. I totally agree that voice recognition is generally rubbish for me and it is frustrating to use, but some people like it and do use it regularly.

I am sure there will be many responses to your post which will help explain the processes.

[sidehaas]

What software are you on? If 3.0 or later, voice control is much improved over older versions, but still not up there with Google etc.
The ACC is excellent. I wouldn't characterise the smart features as negatively as you, but I do prefer it without them. The things you need to turn off in the Assist--> ACC menu are speed limit preview and road layout preview. All "phantom braking" is caused by one or other of those smart features when they read an incorrect sign or misinterpret your position on the road via GPS. You can keep on speed sign recognition without it affecting the set ACC speed if you turn off speed limit preview.
For what it's worth cars of most brands suffer the same issues, it's just that most cars don't yet have the ability to auto adjust the ACC speed.

[Midgex]

I don't think it really slams the brakes on, but it is necessary to actually drive.
There are a couple of roads around here where the car assumes the 20mph road to the left is the limit for the 30 or 40mph road here. Applying the accelerator doesn't drop the ACC, so life is not too hard. There's one where the 50mph ramp toward the motorway gets sense while on the 40mp road. Each of these is within 100m of a roundabout, so I tend to be involved.
It would be nice to have a mechanism for passing these specific locations back to whoever maintains the model of the world the car is running in its navigator.

The steering hints surprised me the first time I met them, now I'm prone to indicating for small intended movements, and used to the car showing a little reluctance. I also gather modern cars do this. So it goes.
Being asked to please drive in the centre of the lane amused me after the first time.
I do not think it recognises potholes, otherwise it would perhaps encourage us to accept a hint to miss them. Not a bad idea, that, nor would be car to car to base to authority messaging about the position of the hole.


I used to have a Palm Pilot PDA, a phone-sized gadget one wrote on and kept a calendar etc.
Palm had noticed that handwriting recognition is really difficult, but that teaching people to make letters in a particular way is pretty easy, so the Grafiti alphabet was a good compromise between the variable sloppy letters we make and something unmistakable to the machine and worked well after a few days.

I suspect the same occurs with the voice recognition because after the first few days the few out of band commands I give that way are reliably picked up. There is a grammar in there, and some phrases work while others are not understood.

If you don't want the app on your phone then you probably need a phone to have (just?) that app on. It is an obvious part of the system. One can work around it, no doubt.

[MotMot]

I’ve had no issues in 30 months or so of ownership. As Sidehaas says - switch off the auto adjust speed and it may alert you to a new or false speed limit but won’t stop you!

BTW - the hardware and software isn’t just for the ID family - it’s been in ICE VW’s for years. Lots of miles of experience and development.

[Scratch]

I’ve had no issues in 30 months or so of ownership. As Sidehaas says - switch off the auto adjust speed and it may alert you to a new or false speed limit but won’t stop you!

BTW - the hardware and software isn’t just for the ID family - it’s been in ICE VW’s for years. Lots of miles of experience and development.

“ BTW - the hardware and software isn’t just for the ID family - it’s been in ICE VW’s for years. Lots of miles of experience and development.”

Which makes it interesting as to why the app for the ID cars is so limited in what it can do?

[phixion]

I've had a few instances like you described in my 2 years of ownership, but it isn't THAT bad.

I do think it slows you down unnecessarily at times, and one road in my area is erroneously marked as 5mph speed limits when they are 30... Cruise control doesn't even work at that point.

There was one very dangerous instance where I was on the motorway and went under a bridge and the brakes suddenly slammed on because it thought it was on 30mph road.

[Midgex]

I've had a few instances like you described in my 2 years of ownership, but it isn't THAT bad.

I do think it slows you down unnecessarily at times, and one road in my area is erroneously marked as 5mph speed limits when they are 30... Cruise control doesn't even work at that point.

There was one very dangerous instance where I was on the motorway and went under a bridge and the brakes suddenly slammed on because it thought it was on 30mph road.

There's an interesting hint there to everyone, isn't there.

If you are following a vehicle toward a bridge - over or under - across a road which may have a lower limit, be aware that the vehicle in front may suddenly slow if its cruise control adjusts for the other road.

I've not seen it anywhere previously.

(It is subsumed in the general "be ready for the vehicle in front to brake for no reason you could see in advance", but that is widely taken as a guideline rather than a rule.)

[TimF]

I find ACC works well in situations where I am, er, "cruising": wanting minimal fuss, a particular maximum speed, opportunity to rest both feet. Long stretches of motorway or similar. I've never tried it in town traffic or on minor country roads, and am not sure I'd want to.

[roybosh]

I find ACC works well in situations where I am, er, "cruising": wanting minimal fuss, a particular maximum speed, opportunity to rest both feet. Long stretches of motorway or similar. I've never tried it in town traffic or on minor country roads, and am not sure I'd want to.

I agree about motorway ACC for the reasons you note. It's also great if you are caught up in start stop traffic.
In town traffic it is, on the whole, brilliant IMHO. As long as the stop starts aren't too long in duration, the car will pull away when the vehicle in front does so. It'll keep you to the limits, 20, 30, 40 etc and you can chose the distance to the vehicle in front.
On minor country roads I would not use ACC, although the limit might be 60mph the safe speed might be as low as 20mph.

I have had 'Phantom Braking' on a couple of occasions and I was like WTF, oh, ok, I see. The car had spotted a temporary 30mph road sign leaning against the central reservation. Now I just disable the ACC and continue on my way.

[GeoffP]

I have ACC enabled but without a speed set. That means it will regeneratively break but will not accelerate. This is perfect for me and Dorset rural driving. It slows down at exactly the optimum rate when approaching a 40mph or 30mph restriction, it slows down automatically for roundabouts and junctions. I never have to touch the break at all. For me it is ideal. As it only uses regenerative breaking then it doesn't ever "Slam the breaks on". The worse it has ever done is slowed noticeably if it mistakenly saw a speed limit for a side road.

[andrewtc]

Thanks. Sounds like there is something I can switch off in the ACC options, hope it stays off. The comment about potholes is striking; there is rarely a car coming in the opposite direction when it tries to swerve into potholes. And generally it has mis-identified the lane edge. No idea which software version.

[MotMot]

Worth remembering that the ACC response is also governed by the car mode... in ECO mode its far more relaxed (brakes more gently, accelerates more gently) than standard mode (or whatever its called).

[simongittus]

I’ve had the phantom breaking issue too since new but appears to be better with the latest update.

The car would seem to think you’d taken an exit off a motorway and slam the breaks on thinking you were approaching a roundabout or corner without warning. You’d then have to use the accelerator manually until it corrected itself.

I think I’ve only had it once since the update so definitely an improvement from what it used to be like.

[Sdotk]

The things you need to turn off in the Assist--> ACC menu are speed limit preview and road layout preview.

Does the car remember your selection or is this another setting that has to be turned off every time like LKA?

[sidehaas]

The things you need to turn off in the Assist--> ACC menu are speed limit preview and road layout preview.

Does the car remember your selection or is this another setting that has to be turned off every time like LKA?

It remembers.