First test drive

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
monkeyhanger
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger » Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:04 pm

CarterHounslow wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:47 am
How far is it to your relations out of interest from your place, and roughly where in the world are they? We can help you with this info.

You were probably driving in D mode. Put it in B mode and some of the braking comes from the regen, in D mode it still surprises me how far the travel is. In B mode the brake pedal travel is still long but not so bad.
B mode driving is less efficient that D-mode driving, in B mode you're either maintaining a speed or regenning. In D mode, you can get to your desired speed and coast, when you brake, you are regenning to a certain point, then actually using the brake, just as if you pressed on the brakes beyond the capability of regen in B-mode.

In B-mode you're either inputting to drive or recovering your momentum (at about 80% efficiency).

In D-mode you're inputting to drive, then coasting while preserving your momentum or using the brakes (to instigate recovery). Always more efficient to preserve momentum than prematurely recover it. Just because you press the brake pedal in D-mode doesn't mean you're always using the brakes to slow.

MotMot
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 pm

Post by MotMot » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:33 pm

Except when you think you're "coasting" - you're actually either using very small amounts of energy to keep speed or just doing small amounts of regen. Recovery will start when you take your foot off the accelerator - not when you press the brake. Albeit likely tiny amounts.

Unlike a manual ICE you can't disengage the motor and actually coast... the motor is always doing something and either feeding or consuming energy.

I suspect there is little difference between the two in terms of energy consumption - its down to which avoids using the brakes the most - and whether there are any optimum regen patterns (ie is it better to regen more at the start of a slowing down sequence or end). Probably a load of stuff from F1 about the optimum places/speeds to charge up your batteries!!

Personally I like B - it just means less foot left to rightery! :)

On a similar note, I was wondering whether ACC following someone and gently speeding up and slowing down all the time is better (because you're behind someone) or worse (changing speeds) for consumption than just going at a single speed...

monkeyhanger
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:01 pm

D is definitely more efficient than B. Not wasting energy to require regen recovery is more efficient than recovering 80% of it the energy you just wasted. In my personal experience around the doors, I'd estimate there's about 10% in it. Sat on the motorway maintaining 70mph, there'll be nothing in it, and even in B mode, if you're using ACC, the car's operating like its in D mode rather than having the speed drop like a stone because you've not got your foot on the accelerator

Maintaining a speed is always more efficient than slowing (through regen with the ID3) and then speeding up again to compensate, whether it be EV or ICE.

D mode to drive like an ICE auto car, B mode to kind of replicate the 1 pedal driving of a Leaf etc

CarterHounslow
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Post by CarterHounslow » Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:10 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:01 pm
D is definitely more efficient than B. Not wasting energy to require regen recovery is more efficient than recovering 80% of it the energy you just wasted. In my personal experience around the doors, I'd estimate there's about 10% in it. Sat on the motorway maintaining 70mph, there'll be nothing in it, and even in B mode, if you're using ACC, the car's operating like its in D mode rather than having the speed drop like a stone because you've not got your foot on the accelerator

Maintaining a speed is always more efficient than slowing (through regen with the ID3) and then speeding up again to compensate, whether it be EV or ICE.

D mode to drive like an ICE auto car, B mode to kind of replicate the 1 pedal driving of a Leaf etc
It isn't, I've tried both on all kinds of routes, I can't match my usage in D mode that I get in B mode.

CarterHounslow
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Post by CarterHounslow » Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:15 pm

Scratch wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:50 pm
CarterHounslow wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:10 am
Scratch wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:50 am




WE haven't bought an ID3 yet.
I know that, you said you test drove one.

I asked where are your relatives in the world, closest town and where do you travel from?

How often do you do that journey a year?

What's your daily journey lengths like?

I've covered a lot of miles now in an ID3 and charged outside the home etc.
This is the crux of my conundrum. The visit to these relations is only maybe 3 times a year. It's about 120 miles. My daily/weekly journeys are easily achievable with the ID3, so charging at home would be the ideal. I spoke to our electrician yesterday and he says he is having trouble sourcing chargers. Another area suffering the microchip shortage.
Please can you just tell me where you live and where they live? I'm trying to see what the availability of public chargers are either on your journey or near your relatives. Charging at your relatives is going to be pointless. In the depths of winter you will probably only need 50% battery back to go their and back, and even on a 50 kw public charger you'll only need to sit on those for about 30 minutes.

stevefletcher1978
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:23 pm

Post by stevefletcher1978 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:33 pm

Totally agree re brakes. I’ve had 5 series for the last ten years and the ID.3 is utter crap at braking compared to them. Dangerously so imo. Fine for gradual slow down but I had to brake sharply from 60 last week and genuinely my old car would have stopped in less than half the distance it took the id.3, and that was foot to the floor.

monkeyhanger
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:28 pm

CarterHounslow wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:10 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:01 pm
D is definitely more efficient than B. Not wasting energy to require regen recovery is more efficient than recovering 80% of it the energy you just wasted. In my personal experience around the doors, I'd estimate there's about 10% in it. Sat on the motorway maintaining 70mph, there'll be nothing in it, and even in B mode, if you're using ACC, the car's operating like its in D mode rather than having the speed drop like a stone because you've not got your foot on the accelerator

Maintaining a speed is always more efficient than slowing (through regen with the ID3) and then speeding up again to compensate, whether it be EV or ICE.

D mode to drive like an ICE auto car, B mode to kind of replicate the 1 pedal driving of a Leaf etc
It isn't, I've tried both on all kinds of routes, I can't match my usage in D mode that I get in B mode.
If you drive uneconomically with poor anticipation of the road ahead, leading you to brake late and very hard, using the actual brakes quite a bit (because you override the D mode's desire to use regen to slow for a roundabout or junction with a touch of throttle), then I could see how B might be more economical, only if B has a more powerful regen capability than D does when it regenerates (which it doesn't) or you otherwise use more anticipation of the road ahead when in B mode than D mode. Preserving momentum will always trump recovering wasted momentum and the efficiency of recovery through regen is the same for both D and B.

colonelpurple
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:57 pm

Post by colonelpurple » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:41 am

I find the brakes on the ID3 very sharp. The main difference between the ID3 and my previous BMW is that the pedal throw, on both the accelerator and brake is longer on the ID3. I am sure VW have done this to give you more control over the torque and the braking. One thing I am realising is that the ID3 has been extremely well thought out to deal with the electric torque and a braking curve driven by the different engine type and brakes.

If you are having issues pushing the brake pedal to the floor, you might want to consider adjusting your seating position, you might be to far away to make this comfortable.

The other side of this is acceleration. I never push the pedal to the floor in a petrol/diesel car as after about 75% you are just burning petrol with no gain in acceleration. With the ID3 its completely different, the more you press the more acceleration you get. I have floored the ID3 quite a few times and its great fun.

In terms of B mode, i initially dismissed it but found I am using it all the time now. You just seem much more in control of the car and the accelerating and deceleration phase. i also find i am using the brakes much less, which saves on their wear and tear.

Its a new experience, but its very addictive and makes an ICE car feel rather primitive. My wife was a big sceptic initially, but now feels she wouldn't want to drive an ICE again.
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CarterHounslow
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Post by CarterHounslow » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:50 am

monkeyhanger wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:28 pm
CarterHounslow wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:10 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:01 pm
D is definitely more efficient than B. Not wasting energy to require regen recovery is more efficient than recovering 80% of it the energy you just wasted. In my personal experience around the doors, I'd estimate there's about 10% in it. Sat on the motorway maintaining 70mph, there'll be nothing in it, and even in B mode, if you're using ACC, the car's operating like its in D mode rather than having the speed drop like a stone because you've not got your foot on the accelerator

Maintaining a speed is always more efficient than slowing (through regen with the ID3) and then speeding up again to compensate, whether it be EV or ICE.

D mode to drive like an ICE auto car, B mode to kind of replicate the 1 pedal driving of a Leaf etc
It isn't, I've tried both on all kinds of routes, I can't match my usage in D mode that I get in B mode.
If you drive uneconomically with poor anticipation of the road ahead, leading you to brake late and very hard, using the actual brakes quite a bit (because you override the D mode's desire to use regen to slow for a roundabout or junction with a touch of throttle), then I could see how B might be more economical, only if B has a more powerful regen capability than D does when it regenerates (which it doesn't) or you otherwise use more anticipation of the road ahead when in B mode than D mode. Preserving momentum will always trump recovering wasted momentum and the efficiency of recovery through regen is the same for both D and B.
Trust me, I drive better than 99.9% of people on the road. No idea why, but I'm getting better numbers in B. I regularly run up and down the M40 at night with no one on there. ACC set to 70, similar temps, set it to D, set it to B, hardly ever having to touch a brake or accelerate and I get better economy. Must have done it 10 times at least in each mode now. There's not a lot in it, perhaps 0.1/0.2 miles per Kw, but can't get D to be better. Perhaps because it's a particularly hilly motorway because of the Chilterns? I don't know.

Maybe, just maybe if I didn't use ACC and I let it coast down the hill and go over 70 and use momentum to start going back up again this may change things? I can give it a go. But the regen is quite powerful. Keeping me to 70 going down the must be putting a decent amount back.

monkeyhanger
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by monkeyhanger » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:28 am

ACC is the answer to your question. Once you have ACC on, that overrides the need of B to bang on the regen hard to slow you down when you're not on the accelerator. B isn't acting as B when ACC is on.

I only really use ACC when I'm travelling through average speed zones governed by cameras. Most of the time I'd rather come off the accelerator early and slow to a reasonable gap behind the car in front of me in D mode than have the car accelerate in 70 toward a car doing 60 and then it jump on the regen to slow me down. It's got to be more economical to produce just enough momentum than overproduction and then recover most of that overproduction. I'm not really one to make full use of all the driving aids. I feel so disengaged from the assisted driving experience, I'd rather minimise the intrusion of that assistance to save me falling asleep at the wheel through boredom.

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