Advice for purchasing used

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jd10
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:04 pm

Post by jd10 »

Hi all

Been toying with the idea of buying an ID3 for years. Watched loads of youtube videos, and rented a '22 plate 'Life' for a long weekend. Aside from the usual gripes with interior quality and the infotainment system we absolutely loved our 3 days with it. We live in London and would mainly use one for short trips around town.

Thinking of buying an Approved Used Business 58kWh Pro Performance for around 18k. Quite a few about. Would ideally like to own it 4-5 years until the battery warranty ends. Something like this... https://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/en/ve ... _CUR%3AASC

But honestly feeling quite apprehensive given various things I've read and heard about ID3 reliability and VW dealers.

Few questions I would love if anyone could offer opinions on...

1. Any pitfalls to watch out for with a '20 plate. Is one of these very early models a bad idea?

2. Can a model this old still be updated to the most recent software version (think it's 3.5 now?). Presume I can make this a requirement for the sale. Would also not purchase without a full battery check.

3. Approved used comes with a 2 year warranty. Anyone know if that can be extended when the 2 years is up?

4. Trim-wise - any material reason to pay more for a 'Tech', 'Family', 'Max', etc?

5. Would it be better to pay say another 9k for a facelift model? Can find them around 27k now.

Thanks so much in advance for any advice

Jonathan

id3_life
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:16 am

Post by id3_life »

On the one hand (facelift):
Latest & greatest is always better if you can afford it.
Looks & feels much better inside & out (design & different materials/quality).
Longer warranty.
Most of the kinks would have been ironed out.
It's no secret that the older the ID.3 is there is a higher chance it will have battery issues (bad cells) and/or software/hardware issues.
Components/parts/hardware/etc. are improved (newer/better/stronger/faster/etc.) versions (mostly undocumented unless you go around checking every single part no.) and younger in age as well.
Remember all rubber/seals/bushes/bearings/etc. perish with age and use. If you intend to keep car for 5 years some of these cars are already 4 years on the road and will be 8 years by the time you come to sell it.

On the other hand (pre-facelift):
Changing the bonnet & bumper does not suddenly turn the ID.3 into a looker. If you hated the overall look before your opinion will hardly change.
Same for the interior. Making the door cards/dash softer to touch and keeping the 3 largest issues (10in. screen with no illuminated buttons, haptic feedback buttons on steering wheel, acres of black glossy plastic where you actually touch (unlike the dash/door cards) does not fix the interior.
My ID.3 is a 2022 model shipped with hardware version H30 and 3.1 software. I confirm to have zero issues with this combination and as long you have >H30/3.1 you will have no problems with the infotainment (which is basically radio, clima (never touched that), carplay).
The 2 most important bits of the car, the battery & motor are exactly 100% the same, as is the performance and experience so not benefit there lusting after the fl.

If we were talking about the facelift that is coming: 286bhp motor, bigger battery, 12.9in different screen with backlit buttons & new software, physical buttons on the steering wheel, etc. then that would be a complete no brainer.
However with the current fl/pre-fl I believe it will come down to the luck of the draw:
1) You buy a pre-fl save 9k, be happy.
2) You buy a pre-fl save 9k, battery goes bad, other things go bad = you suffer, wished you went for the fl.
3) You buy the fl, you forget you spend an extra 9k the next day.
4) You buy fl, still goes bad (very small chance but lemons do exist), wished you got the pre-fl and saved yourself 9k

As you can see there is no right answer, good luck.

Bonus: Things like large alloys, tow bar for bike rack, panoramic roof, reversing camera, sound system, etc. etc. may be deal breakers for some, non issue for others so make sure to shop around and don't compromise on spec.
jd10
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:04 pm

Post by jd10 »

Thanks - this is super, super helpful. Really appreciate it. Finding this to be such a dilemma.

With option 2) 'You buy a pre-fl save 9k, battery goes bad, other things go bad = you suffer, wished you went for the fl.'...

Wouldn't the 8 year battery warranty on a '20 plate cover battery failure till ~2028? And I'd have a 2 year approved used warranty. (Really keen to understand if I can extend that warranty at the 2 year mark.) In other words, I'd aim to keep the battery and car itself under warranty for more or less the 4-5 years of ownership. Then perhaps in 4-5 years pick up the model that's coming out later this year after it's done it's first 3+ years of depreciation.

Argh 27k for an fl is so much money for a car to potter around London in a few times p/week. Given how low milage we'd do I'm minded to risk an older model that's depreciated really heavily already.
steviebabes
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:42 am

Post by steviebabes »

We have a 71 reg Life PP and its been brilliant. Our VW dealer has also been very good and performed the 3.2 upgrade in 48 hours with an ID3 loaner. No battery problems and now the weather has warmed up a bit we are getting about the same range as when new. I think we will keep it another 2 years at least and see what is on the market then. One thing to mention is that we have never DC charged it or let the battery go below 20%.
ID3 Life Pro Performance Glacier White Andoya 19in Alloys
id3_life
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:16 am

Post by id3_life »

I should have made this clear.
Warranty in my book does not alleviate the suffering.
Suffering is when the car goes wrong (for whatever reason) when you need it the most and then a vicious circle starts, telephone calls, emails, arguing, having to arrange for transport/rental/courtesy car, trouble shooting, waiting for parts weeks, months, years (I kid you not!).
Incompetent dealers/mechanics. I do not need this stress.
I much rather have a car with no warranty that I know will never break down rather than a car with a 1-2yr warranty plus 4-8yr warranty on battery that is constantly at the dealer for the same or different fault.
Which is why when I buy a car used or new I check all common faults (believe it or not, particular models share the same faults) and decide for the least likely to cause problems down the road.
For the ID.3 with the experience I have, anything 2022 or later I would not hesitate (pre-fl or fl).
Obviously with this being an EV a battery report from the dealer is a must. DC charging or constant charging to 100% or depleting the battery, too cold, too hot, etc. degrade the battery. And miles obviously = charge cycles = degradation.
Ideal battery is low mileage car that has been always trickle charged, always run/charged in temperatures around 23 deg celcious as close to 50% as possible not going over 80% or under 20%, never floored (rapid discharging), etc. etc. which is a fantasy really.
Anything below 95% state of health (SoH) I would not touch. Battery warranty is an enticing 8 years or 100.000 miles but the real picture is far from it.
If the battery degrades in 2 years for example you don't drive to dealer and return with a new battery pack, VW will only touch the battery if it has degraded below 70% (which is pretty much shot by that time) and will consider the warranty honored by changing a bad cell which brings it over 70%.
By the time your battery reaches under 70% SoH you may be already driving for many years with reduced range/performance. The buffer in the battery can be used by the BMS to keep the battery over 70% for as long as possible for what we know.

It is not all doom & gloom though.
Several ID.3 owners had bad cells replaced under warranty. There was a recall for specific VINs.
If warranty is stated at 8 years, I would expect a battery that is taken care of (not abused) to last well over 10-12 years.
Why? Because not even VW could calculate its useful life down to a tee with all the variables and for sure they cannot afford to replace what basically is the entire cost of the car for every car sold.
The ID.3 has a cheap interior (van quality), terrible infotainment hw/sw, but they did not cut any corners on the important bits which is the battery, motor, drivetrain, ADAS.
sidehaas
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:04 am

Post by sidehaas »

jd10 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:28 pm Hi all

Been toying with the idea of buying an ID3 for years. Watched loads of youtube videos, and rented a '22 plate 'Life' for a long weekend. Aside from the usual gripes with interior quality and the infotainment system we absolutely loved our 3 days with it. We live in London and would mainly use one for short trips around town.

Thinking of buying an Approved Used Business 58kWh Pro Performance for around 18k. Quite a few about. Would ideally like to own it 4-5 years until the battery warranty ends. Something like this... https://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/en/ve ... _CUR%3AASC

But honestly feeling quite apprehensive given various things I've read and heard about ID3 reliability and VW dealers.

Few questions I would love if anyone could offer opinions on...

1. Any pitfalls to watch out for with a '20 plate. Is one of these very early models a bad idea?

2. Can a model this old still be updated to the most recent software version (think it's 3.5 now?). Presume I can make this a requirement for the sale. Would also not purchase without a full battery check.

3. Approved used comes with a 2 year warranty. Anyone know if that can be extended when the 2 years is up?

4. Trim-wise - any material reason to pay more for a 'Tech', 'Family', 'Max', etc?

5. Would it be better to pay say another 9k for a facelift model? Can find them around 27k now.

Thanks so much in advance for any advice

Jonathan
I think id3_life is overly negative personally. I think an ID3 is a great used buy and I'm seriously considering a 3yo ID4 to replace our remaining ICE.

1. Just make it sure has software 3.2 and no recalls outstanding. This means both that it is on the latest available software and that it has had a recent battery health check resulting in replacement of any cells found to be faulty (the recall to check covered all VINs from cars obuilt with older software, mine was one that needed a cell replacing, and its been done successfully. They don't replace the whole pack, the modules can be swapped individually). Even it hasn't had those recalls done yet, you could still buy it, but you need to be prepared for the hassle of getting them done, and being without the car for a while if it needs a cell (in relaity a module) replacing. Personally I'd want to avoid that if buying now. There is nothing else much to worry about. The more common faults tend to affect electronic control modules, just make sure you have a decent test drive and there are no error codes on the dash.
2. It's not yet clear whether older ID3s will ever get 3.7, the latest any ID3s are on. Thosebuilt with3.0 omwards (delivered from about May 2022) seem most likely to get it. All ID3s can definitely get 3.2 and hopefully 3.7+ but we don't know for sure yet. To be honest 3.2 is fine, there is not much wrong with it now. New ID4/5/7s, and soon the ID3 and Buzz, are on 4.0. Thismis a more significantupgrade, with an improved screen and some new features including battery preheating. I think it's unlikely that any current ID3 (pre or post facelift) will get 4.0 because it uses different hardware.
3. Don't know. I do know that if you buy one just under 3 years old, you can pay £2-300 pa for an extended warranty.
4. This Depends on your needs and wants. There isn't any essential kit missing on the base model. We got a Family because we really wanted a reversing camera and pano roof. Others think the best benefit of a Familynis the Matrix lights. If you want travel assist you need a higher spec. Etc. Worth noting that Life has a more basic seat fabric that looks a bit old fashioned jn my opinion...nit sure what Business models have.
5. In my opinion, no. 9k is a lot of money. If I wanted a nearly new car anyway, then I'd probably pay a little more for a facelift than a pre facelift with the same kit, but not much. The differences are pretty minor, just cosmetic stuff.

Sorry about my poor typing.
Last edited by sidehaas on Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

steviebabes wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:54 pm We have a 71 reg Life PP and its been brilliant. Our VW dealer has also been very good and performed the 3.2 upgrade in 48 hours with an ID3 loaner. No battery problems and now the weather has warmed up a bit we are getting about the same range as when new. I think we will keep it another 2 years at least and see what is on the market then. One thing to mention is that we have never DC charged it or let the battery go below 20%.
There is no reason not to DC charge it or to never take it below 20%. We have taken ours all over the country and to France and Belgium from Liverpool. It's a great car.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
Boattrainman
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:56 am
Location: Ireland

Post by Boattrainman »

Bought an 18 month old car on seeing it by chance in a local dealership. Was looking to go EV, so dived in without even a test drive.

Turned out car was an ex demo with a huge spec and overall the ID3 has been a fantastic car, with zero issues that crop up here, which tends to be an echo chamber for owners with legitimate problems, but are in a significant minority.

You would need to be very unlucky to get a bad used vehicle, as ever with second hand, try to get a car with the lowest mileage possibe for the year, and buy an extended warrantly if you are nervous after year three.

My only problem is I will have a 4.5 year old hi spec car with around 35k kilometers, in as new condition when I come to change, which I wll be very reluctant to part with, a nice dilemna.

I'd personally go for second hand in a heart beat, especially to beat the depreciation cliff, but up to you.

Rob
............................................................................
2021 Pro Performance Max
White with East Derry Alloys
jd10
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:04 pm

Post by jd10 »

Thanks so much for these comments. Woke up excited about buying one and all these comments have been very instructive.

For me there seems to be something a bit special about ID3s. I've been lucky to have extended drives in an i3, IX3, Polestar, Megane e-tech and a q4 e-tron. The I3 excepted, they all felt a tiny bit soulless. Whereas the ID3 somehow seemed to better capture the spirit of the electric era (however long it lasts). It struck us as being straightforward, no-frills and spirited. But surprisingly refined and practical for a small family. RWD is a big one admittedly. Last car was an 1999 E36 328i which was reluctantly sold last year after 7 years of very happy ownership. (Bought for 3.6k, sold for 6.2k!) I'm so accustomed to RWD can't imagine ever going back.

I say all this in the hope I might avoid some of the pains some ID3 early adopters seem to have endured, particularly with the infotainment system and electrics. And suspect that even if the range degraded significantly we'd still be ok given how short 95% of our journeys will be.

Will chat to some VW dealers today. Things I most want reassurance of is the infotainment version, whether any battery cells were replaced / need replacing, having a battery health check and options for warranty extensions.
Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

Don’t know whether anyone has mentioned this or not, but don’t forget that VW can actually build cars that don’t fall apart. They may not be up there with Tesla as far as the tech is concerned (but getting a lot better) but I would rather have the build quality of VW over most others.
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

jd10 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:45 am
Will chat to some VW dealers today. Things I most want reassurance of is the infotainment version, whether any battery cells were replaced / need replacing, having a battery health check and options for warranty extensions.
Some VW dealers might be unknowledgeable. If so, you can tell if an older car has been updated from photos of the driver's screen.
If it's a pre 2022 car, then if it shows the % remaining as well as the miles remaining, it'll have been updated. If it was from mid 2022 on it would have had that anyway. However you can also tell for sure it's been updated if it shows driving consumption data in the driver's display. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean its out of date necessarily, as you can change what is shown there with the steering wheel controls. But if you see a photo of a car with driving consumption data on that screen, you know it's up to date.
Hopefully the dealer can confirm for you if a car has any recalls outstanding.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
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Trapdoor
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Post by Trapdoor »

The Business is a nice spec, the three main differences to the Family when new are the that it doesn't have the glass roof the double height boot floor and it's without dual controls for the heating. I believe the last one is due to be added via software update and it is possible to add the boot floor kit but the roof is obviously a different matter.
jd10
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Post by jd10 »

Brief update. Not much progression. I've asked for various info on 4+ cars - mainly infotainment system versions, recalls including battery recalls, battery health statistics. Only one dealer's gotten back to me and the battery stats were below a threshold I'd be comfortable with. Not feeling that confident in the general knowledge the dealers are demonstrating about ID3s. Crossing fingers for positive news for the other cars in the coming days.
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

jd10 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:47 am Brief update. Not much progression. I've asked for various info on 4+ cars - mainly infotainment system versions, recalls including battery recalls, battery health statistics. Only one dealer's gotten back to me and the battery stats were below a threshold I'd be comfortable with. Not feeling that confident in the general knowledge the dealers are demonstrating about ID3s. Crossing fingers for positive news for the other cars in the coming days.
Dealer knowledge is pretty low generally. I'm considering a used ID4. Will just go visit and plug an OBD scanner in myself to check the battery, assuming they'll let me. As per previous post, you can usually tell the software version from the advert photos.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
SinglePointSafety
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Post by SinglePointSafety »

jd10, we have a 2021 pre-reg id3 in Max trim, so it's got everything we would ever wish for - electrically-adjustable seats - with armrests!, dynamic chassis control, matrix lights, travel assist (radar cruise control combined with lane assist, great on a long motorway journey), variable boot floor - and wonderful, cheap/reliable 18-inch steel wheels with sensible 55-profile tyres. The DCC is set to 'softest' because our local roads are abysmal and getting worse (no money for repairs) and the ride is at least as good as cars several sizes up. The other bonus is a tiny turning circle

Driving is a total delight. I've driven/been a passenger in other EVs and our id3 compares very well. All EVs are silent at low speed but can suffer at higher speed with wind and road noise (try this in a Kia Niro-EV!) and the id3 is very, very hushed for both of these noise sources. Visibility is excellent, town driving in B-mode makes it easy to control speed in an intuitive way, never felt the need to have adjustable regen. Given how/where/when I drive, the WLTP range is definitely achievable in the warmer months. The HUD is excellent and will also 'mirror' navigation when using Android Auto

Since the 3.2 update most of the software glitches (tempting fate here) have gone, DC charging curve has improved noticeably, we've got used to the haptic controls (although I'd like to execute the 'genius' who came up with the non-backlit sliders for the climate control), Apple car play and Android auto work very well (we always connect with the USB lead - navigation drains the phone's battery quicker than the wireless charging pad can supply) , even the built-in navigation is half-decent

Plug and charge works! (only Ionity support this atm, hoping others will follow)

Downsides: occasional issues with software (self-fixes on next power-up, or infotainment re-start if really bad), above-mentioned temp slider controls, I'd prefer more control over the lights - for safety reasons they will always turn on if it's dark/wet as soon as the car is moving - pretty trivial stuff eh? And our local VW dealer isn't the best, but probably not the worst

If we replaced our id3 I would genuinely struggle to decide on what to buy next other than an id3 (perhaps new Hyundai Kona, dunno....). If VW offer a decent warranty when the 3-years run out this June, we'll keep it for at least another year
id3 Max 2021
jd10
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Post by jd10 »

How do people feel about the following battery health stats... late 2020 plate. Just over 20k miles.

Battery capacity in % - 93%
Total stored energy - 8929 kWh
Stored DC energy - 1369 kWh
Share of stored DC energy - 15.30%
Total idle time - 1341 days
Idle time fully charged - 130 days
Share of idle time fully charged - 9.6%
Midgex
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Post by Midgex »

later adjustments.

VW have built a lot of cars, they are not bad at it.
The batteries are more robust than was widely expected.
Batteries will get cheaper, modules will be available, life will generally become easier with time, not harder.

And given the choice between wear and tear on the driver vs the battery, charge it up before a long drive, just don't leave it forever at 95% and if you planned to arrive somewhere at 10% be sure you are plugging in at the moment of arrival. Not so different from petrol tanks, really. DC charging in use doesn't seem to make a visible difference.
duncsand
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Post by duncsand »

My understanding of battery longevity is that they take a small hit early on, then level out. My view would be that 93% is reasonable and it probably took most of that 7% in the first year.
---
id.3 Family Pro Performance.
Ordered September 2021, build week 25, confirmed built 1st July, collected from dealer 20th July.
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

jd10 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:04 am How do people feel about the following battery health stats... late 2020 plate. Just over 20k miles.

Battery capacity in % - 93%
Total stored energy - 8929 kWh
Stored DC energy - 1369 kWh
Share of stored DC energy - 15.30%
Total idle time - 1341 days
Idle time fully charged - 130 days
Share of idle time fully charged - 9.6%
I struggle to know with these battery stats exactly what they are measuring 93% of. Dues it mean the usable energy is now 93% of 58kwh? And if do I'm not sure how comparable that is with figures I can see for my car in car scanner. But instinctively I would say that 93% after 3.5 years is pretty good.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

Stats look excellent for 3.5 years. Perfectly fine mix of ac dc charging.
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